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Shopping for a spray booth

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  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Laurel, MD
Shopping for a spray booth
Posted by garyj on Tuesday, August 3, 2010 6:45 PM

I am shopping for a spray booth.  Right now I am torn between a Paasche and one from MicroMark.  The Paasche is cheaper and bigger.  The one from MicroMark is down-draft and it has a window for lighting.  Are those two features worth the difference in price?

Furthermore, I have an issue only tangentially related to painting.  I find the fumes from solvent-based plastic welders and glues to be intolerable.  I have tried Weldene which smells much better and won't melt my brain, but it doesn't seem to work as well as Tenax and friends.  I read a sheet from 3M about working with dichloromethane, and they suggest that the only safe way to work with it is to use an external air supply.  Obviously this is overkill for the tiny amounts used by the hobbyist, but it underlines the fact that an R95 respirator is insufficient.  So, will a spray booth be able to evacuate those fumes so that they don't bother me?  I realize that some exposure is inevitable, but I'd like to get that low enough so that I don't get a solvent hangover.

-- Gary

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Wednesday, August 4, 2010 3:04 AM

The Paasche model has a considerably more powerfully fan & a larger working area & is $90 less!

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Laurel, MD
Posted by garyj on Wednesday, August 4, 2010 12:14 PM

Milairjunkie

The Paasche model has a considerably more powerfully fan & a larger working area & is $90 less!

This is all true, although the more powerful fan is probably necessary for the larger working area, and may not indicate an increased ability to evacuate the booth.  My question is whether the light window and downdraft of the MicroMark model is worth the trade-off of increased price and a smaller booth.

Suppose I buy the Paasche.  In a year am I going to say to myself, "I wish I had spent the extra money for downdraft and better lighting"?

-- Gary

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Wednesday, August 4, 2010 1:59 PM

Yes, looking at the numbers the MM is the more powerful - well it will replace the air inside the faster than the Paasche will.

WIth regards to the location of the extraction vent, the Paasche unit could be sat on it's extraction unit to provide downwards extraction, although what is the "top shelf" in the upright position may get in the way. You could also install lighting on the inner top side of the booth, making perspex panel a bit redundant.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Thursday, August 5, 2010 12:36 AM

Here's the way I see it...

When you're shooting paint you're going to mainly be shooting towards the back of the booth so to me, it only makes sense for the overspray and fumes to go out the back.  With a downdraft overspray is going to accumulate on the back wall and what doesn't, along with the fumes, is going to bounce off and be redirected down to the filter and out by the fan. In my booth, the filter is the backwall so what accumulates there goes out with the filter. Now, if the fan/blower is strong enough and the filter is clean enough not to restrict flow too much then a downdraft should get most of it. But, the fumes and spray could bounce back in your face too. Just like spraying in a corner of whatever you're painting. Just my opinion but I think a booth that draws out the back is a better idea.

Another thing to think about, with this downdraft booth the floor is going to be the filter. Anything you set on there is going to cut down on flow. Also, the overspray/dust is going to accumulate there so you'll have to be careful about moving things around so you don't get that dust on whatever you just painted.

I store things in my booth. An airbrush cleaning station, small bottles of different thinners/cleaners, the brushes I use to clean the airbrush, straws to transfer paint, etc. A solid floor makes that possible. But I also have a door on the booth and that's where I leave just painted parts to dry/cure.  When your floor is a filter then you'll have to be very careful about stirring up dust. At least when the blower/fan is off. As long as I don't brush anything against the back wall of my booth I don't have to worry about it. As long as I keep the booth reasonably clean.

Oh, as milair mentioned, it would be easy to put a light fixture in the top of the Paasche booth. Wouldn't be hard to add a door to either. Just my opinions...

Tony

            

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Laurel, MD
Posted by garyj on Thursday, August 5, 2010 1:29 AM

Wingman_kz

Another thing to think about, with this downdraft booth the floor is going to be the filter. Anything you set on there is going to cut down on flow. Also, the overspray/dust is going to accumulate there so you'll have to be careful about moving things around so you don't get that dust on whatever you just painted.

Good point.  I intend to do some assembly in the booth to vent plastic welder fumes away from me, so the rigid bottom on the Paasche is a definite advantage.

-- Gary

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:26 AM

garyj

Furthermore, I have an issue only tangentially related to painting.  I find the fumes from solvent-based plastic welders and glues to be intolerable.  I have tried Weldene which smells much better and won't melt my brain, but it doesn't seem to work as well as Tenax and friends.  I read a sheet from 3M about working with dichloromethane, and they suggest that the only safe way to work with it is to use an external air supply.  Obviously this is overkill for the tiny amounts used by the hobbyist, but it underlines the fact that an R95 respirator is insufficient.  So, will a spray booth be able to evacuate those fumes so that they don't bother me?  I realize that some exposure is inevitable, but I'd like to get that low enough so that I don't get a solvent hangover.

A couple points, if I may:

1.  An R95 respirator is indeed going to be insufficient because it's designed to filter particulates, not the organic vapors associated with using glues.  But you bring up an interesting point.  Even organic vapor cartridges are less efficient with methylene chloride because the molecule is not very polar, and as a result, it doesn't adsorb well onto activated charcoal.

2.  You may find using a spray booth to be self-defeating.  Working inside a booth pulling gobs of air may cause much faster evaporation of your glues, so that the glue either evaporates before you get it on the part, or it dries/evaporates too quickly leaving you with an inadequately glued part.  This is solved, in part, by using higher volumes of glue to do what you did before with smaller quantities.  Ultimately, you're throwing money out the window.

3.  If you're concerned about solvent exposures/odors,  you might want to consider changing glues.  Try substituting Testor's Liquid Cement for the Tenax you're currently using.  Testor's uses methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) as their primary ingredient as opposed to methylene chloride (dichloromethane) for the Tenax brand.  MEK is much less toxic than dichloromethane, and it evaporates much slower, so glue odors don't become bothersome as quickly.  Testor's also has the added benefit of setting a little slower, allowing a little longer to make any final adjustments on glued parts.  When dry, the bond is as strong as that of Tenax.  I use both Testor's and Tamiya glues.  Great stuff.  (As an aside, MC has been implicated, and is gaining momentum, as a human carcinogen.  You can access the National Toxicology Program website for more information.)

4.  Finally, a couple common sense alternatives:  Instead of a spray booth, put a small room fan at your back or to the side of your work area.  It will direct vapors away from your breathing zone, dilute the vapor concentrations as it redirects airflow, and won't prematurely dry out your glue or your parts.  Next, use a small paint brush, or one of the popular applicators available for gluing parts instead of the applicators that come with the product.  Keep the glue bottle covered when you're not using it, and place the glue bottle further away from your face during use--either move the bottle or your face away from the open bottle.

Hope this helps you some.

Gip

P.S.    As far as booths go, it's going to boil down to what you like and can afford, as well as what you purpose to do with it.  For us hobbyists, a downdraft booth is just as good as a back-drafted booth.  There really aren't any issues asscociated with overspray or capture that I'm aware of.  Downdraft booths use gravity to help capture organics and particulates, hence the lower airflow rates.  In addition, those lower airflow rates allow an activated charcoal filter to be placed below the particulate filter for the purpose of catching the organic vapors.  So if you can't--or don't want to--exhaust your airflow outdoors, the downdraft may be the way to go.  If you're spraying really large kits, or you like to go crazy using rattlecans to paint with, or you have a high volume/high pressure paint gun (or if you want to spend less money), then the back-drafted may be more to your liking, because it uses much higher airflow rates to capture particulates and vapors.  But it will require you to use exhaust ducting to get the contaminants outdoors.

 

Oh, and sorry for the longish post.

Gip

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Laurel, MD
Posted by garyj on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 1:14 PM

styrene

 

3.  If you're concerned about solvent exposures/odors,  you might want to consider changing glues.  Try substituting Testor's Liquid Cement for the Tenax you're currently using.  Testor's uses methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) as their primary ingredient as opposed to methylene chloride (dichloromethane) for the Tenax brand.  MEK is much less toxic than dichloromethane, and it evaporates much slower, so glue odors don't become bothersome as quickly.  Testor's also has the added benefit of setting a little slower, allowing a little longer to make any final adjustments on glued parts.  When dry, the bond is as strong as that of Tenax.  I use both Testor's and Tamiya glues.  Great stuff.  (As an aside, MC has been implicated, and is gaining momentum, as a human carcinogen.  You can access the National Toxicology Program website for more information.)

4.  Finally, a couple common sense alternatives:  Instead of a spray booth, put a small room fan at your back or to the side of your work area.  It will direct vapors away from your breathing zone, dilute the vapor concentrations as it redirects airflow, and won't prematurely dry out your glue or your parts.  Next, use a small paint brush, or one of the popular applicators available for gluing parts instead of the applicators that come with the product.  Keep the glue bottle covered when you're not using it, and place the glue bottle further away from your face during use--either move the bottle or your face away from the open bottle.

To date, I have been doing essentially what is recommended in #4 and it definitely helps with the solvent hangover from MC.  I have found that the touch-n-flow applicator does the best job both in terms of vapors and in the resulting product, though I have tried a number of other things, including the bottle brush, a dropper bottle with a steel needle, a small brush, and a microbrush.  I happen to have a bottle of Testor's liquid that I just bought this weekend for diluting Squadron White Putty.  Will it work in the touch-n-flow?

 

styrene

P.S.    As far as booths go, it's going to boil down to what you like and can afford, as well as what you purpose to do with it.  For us hobbyists, a downdraft booth is just as good as a back-drafted booth.  There really aren't any issues asscociated with overspray or capture that I'm aware of.  Downdraft booths use gravity to help capture organics and particulates, hence the lower airflow rates.  In addition, those lower airflow rates allow an activated charcoal filter to be placed below the particulate filter for the purpose of catching the organic vapors.  So if you can't--or don't want to--exhaust your airflow outdoors, the downdraft may be the way to go.  If you're spraying really large kits, or you like to go crazy using rattlecans to paint with, or you have a high volume/high pressure paint gun (or if you want to spend less money), then the back-drafted may be more to your liking, because it uses much higher airflow rates to capture particulates and vapors.  But it will require you to use exhaust ducting to get the contaminants outdoors.

Thanks.  I hadn't considered the "spray without venting" aspect of downdraft booths.

-- Gary

  • Member since
    March 2010
Posted by Slynky on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:15 PM

Wow... !

What happened to the "good ole days" of spraying with a can of Pla and covering it with the top part of the model box to keep dust off it while it dried.  LOL

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:27 PM

Gary,

The touch-n-flow will work great with Testor's Liquid.  Just make sure not to confuse Testor's liquid with the orange Testor's tube glue!  Big Smile

Gip

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Laurel, MD
Posted by garyj on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:09 PM

styrene

Gary,

The touch-n-flow will work great with Testor's Liquid.  Just make sure not to confuse Testor's liquid with the orange Testor's tube glue!  Big Smile

Gip

There's no chance of that.  The tube junk is why I quit putting models together in the sixth grade -- I didn't know there were any alternatives!

-- Gary

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