Making the jump from Model Master to Vallejo...

Browse http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/modelling-products-gb.html

for loads of info, esp. their how to's! (view color chart | auxiliaries | equivalent values)

ModelAIR has most of the same colo(u)rs formulated for airbrushing, ModelCOLOR is thicker more suited to brush, but can be thinned for a/b, Modelair can't be brushed well.

I still regard myself as a beginner, but their new polyurethane primer, (or rattle-can sandable autocar primer of your choice) Vallejo thinner & drying retarder, &  Medea airbrush cleaner are essential...

I find it is susceptible to compressor pressure, humidity, thinner ratio, & tip dry, but is waay better than Tamiya (my opinion only!), to handle, keep your a/b scrupulously clean though...

In terms of use, virtually no smell, easy cleanup, & drip-feeding into a/b cup, (i mix in the cup) make it a winner for me, esp for spraying tiny amounts, 

Get a shelf queen, or scrap item & experiment & play!

Downside, their colour refs don't match anyone elses' so matching Vallejo to Tamiya, FS or MM is harder...

I'm extremely interested to hear about the experience of switching. 

I just recently moved from MM to Tamiya myself (still building up stock after a long time away from modeling, so it wasn't that big a deal), and now I'm trying out a few Lifecolor acrylics my Dauntless build since they actually make non-specular blue gray. But...Vallejo makes the same FS#, so I'm thinking I might try something of a paint-off.

I still do way more figure painting than airbrushing, and I love Vallejo paints.  Their model color line is very comprehensive, theyir thinner, matte and gloss mediums are nice, their transparents, flourescents, all top-notch.  Stuff airbrushes pretty well.  It can be thinned with water, but I use future to cut it for the AB.

The model air line needs almost no thinning, but a drop or two of future in the mix gives it a bit more toughness, helps it self-level, and a bit of satin sheen for decaling.

Never thin it with alcohol!  It curdles.  Also, shake you paints often or they settle out of solution pretty quickly.  Enjoy!

Chris

Jon_a_its

I find it is susceptible to compressor pressure, humidity, thinner ratio, & tip dry, but is waay better than Tamiya (my opinion only!), to handle, keep your a/b scrupulously clean though...

Really? What makes it so much better than Tamiya? I like the way Tamiya sprays but it is kind of delicate and there's something about the smell of it that sticks with me for hours.  I'm quickly becoming disenchanted(being polite) with MM Acryll and would like to try someting new. Thought my LHS was going to pick up a new line of paints but that seems to be going slowly so, I'm open to suggestion.

Tony

Specifically the Model Color line has so many more color choices than Tamiya.  It is water based, not alcohol, has a very high pigment count, and I love the dropper bottles.  When I do mix, it makes getting the ratios the same very easy.  The stuff brush paints like a dream, and add water (with a bit of acrylic flow release) or Future, and you can airbrush it as well.

Chris

I use quiet a bit of Vallejo now.

Their colours are nice and I am in the process for a full switch-over.

I first got into them as me and my son got back into GW 40K Armies (Eldar and Ork)  but we found GW paints to be a tad pricey and use the Vallejo gaming colours now.

It's already been said, but I'll say too, that Vallejos are great for brush painting.

Just a note though, if you're getting a bit over the smell of MM, then you're going to hate Mr Color (being  lacquers). Great paint, but very strong lacquer smell.

I will my results here and my experiences. Most of the paints and primers are on their way, so should be here next week. On Monday, I will be ordering Mr. Color for their RLM selection. I will post that up here. as well. I am sure there are a lot of 'old hands' at this, but for us new guys I thought this might be helpful.

Figure painting is one of the reasons I switched. That, and the marvelous way it shows chips on tanks. But from what I read, a lot of people seem to think Vallejo is the bomb for brush painting...I guess we will see.

BTW...thanks for the heads up on what you thin Vallejo with. That will save me a mistake or two.

I am in the same boat as you with MM Acryl. Something about their Acryl line didn't work for me. From airbrush technique to colors, just came at me wrong. There is something about their colors that throws me off entirely...though that could be a biased view due to loving their enamels. I know there are people out there that can work their Acryl line, like no one's business. I just could not get the hang of it, though...

Phil_H

It's already been said, but I'll say too, that Vallejos are great for brush painting.

Just a note though, if you're getting a bit over the smell of MM, then you're going to hate Mr Color (being  lacquers). Great paint, but very strong lacquer smell.

Thanks for the heads up on that. I had forgotten that they are lacquer based. I think I will change my order to just a couple and see how that goes.

Thanks again.....

Yeh, the dropper bottles are cool. That's one reason I suggested them to my LHS. I have several questions.

Do they foam much when you shake them to mix? With a high pigment count do you have to reduce them (Model Color) a lot to airbrush? How do they shoot through a fine tip brush? Much tipdry or clogging? Killjoy, do you use a Velocity or Sotar? I don't recall for sure. Do you know the difference between Model Color and Model Air? Just thinner? And finally(for now), what about adhesion? Any problems with masking over them?

The Vallejo color charts I have list 200 Model Color paints and 98 Model Air. That's quite a selection. They don't have FS, RAL,RLM, etc numbers but I can crossreference them. Are you guys satisfied with their color match? I guess it's like anything else, add a little of this and a little of that to get just what you want.  One more, in the US what's the best place to order them from?

I haven't ordered any Mr Color yet but am definitely going to give them a try too. I like lacquers. The odor doesn't bother me. Most paints don't. There's just something about the smell of Tamiya that sticks with me. I don't even have to spray it, just open a couple bottles to pour or mix and the smell stays with me for hours. Don't misunderstand, not condemning, just saying.

Tony

Tony, OK here goes!

Yes, they foam a bit when you shake them, but when you turn the bottle tip down to dispense paint, the 'foam' goes up, and nicely mixed paint goes down into the dropper.

When I shoot model color, I reduce about 50%.  It can be reduced with water, and sprays well, but a bit thin for me.  Some people, especially those who grew up shooting createx like it this way. 

I use a mixture of Future and a drop of retarder to address tip dry.  It also reacts well to Golden's airbrush medium and a bit of water.  Play with what works for you.

As for fine airbrushes, I have neither of the two you mentioned.  My workhorse is a Badger 100LG with medium needle and tip.  I also have a Patriot 105 with he standard fine needle and tip combo.  Both have no problem with my mix of 50-50 (or thinner) Future and Model Color.  I have gone as far as almost 1:2 paint to Future without losing color coverage or adhesion.  I am shooting about 10-12 psi with this mix.

Model Air is basically an even finer ground pigment pre-thinned for airbrush use.  Although I like these a lot, and they spray like a dream right out of the bottle, maybe a drop or two of water, the color choices are very limited compared to model color's amazing range.  Also, sadly, none of the model air colors look at all like the model color stuff when shot.  The blacks don't even have the same sheen and tone.

I prefer model color by far because I brush paint a lot too.  When I do Warhammer 40k stuff (yeah, I still have some, and have friends who do too!) I can brush paint a figurine, and airbrush a vehicle with the same color, and they match up nicely.

Sorry to write a book, but I hope I answered your questions!

Chris

One last thing, as for ordering, I get them from my LHS.  Don't look for it in a model shop, find somewhere in town that carries Warhammer or Warmachine table top games.  Odds are they have Vallejo.  If not, let me know.  My buddy owns the game store here, I'll see if he can help out, he doesn't do much web commerce, but has and probably will ship paints to you if you make a reasonable size purchase.

Chris

Chris I appreciate you taking the time to answer. And I asked a book's worth of questions. I hope AlterEcho doesn't mind and that it can help him too.

I'll look around and see what I can find. There may be a shop in town with gaming supplies like that. This isn't a large city. If not I'll order a couple bottles from somewhere and try them out. I like the color selection, if they work out a decent size order isn't out of the question.

Tony

Wingman_kz

The Vallejo color charts I have list 200 Model Color paints and 98 Model Air. That's quite a selection. They don't have FS, RAL,RLM, etc numbers but I can crossreference them. Are you guys satisfied with their color match? I guess it's like anything else, add a little of this and a little of that to get just what you want.  One more, in the US what's the best place to order them from?

Sprue Brothers lists them with FS numbers. For example: http://store.spruebrothers.com/vallejo-model-color---dark-blue-grey-fs35189-17ml-70904-p15238.aspx

I'm planning to pick up a bottle of Vallejo's dark blue grey sometime this week (my LHS stocks Vallejo) to do a spray comparison against Lifecolor's non-specular blue grey (both FS35189) to see which one will get the honors of coating my Dauntless.

I'll be sure to post the results up here when I'm through.

Also read on another forum that Vallejo Model Color is so high-pigment that people reduce it as much as 1-2 drops of paint to 20 drops of thinner...if true it seems like one bottle could go a really long way.

DoogsATX

Also read on another forum that Vallejo Model Color is so high-pigment that people reduce it as much as 1-2 drops of paint to 20 drops of thinner...if true it seems like one bottle could go a really long way.

 

Wow, I have never reduced them that far!  I have gone 1:2 or even 1:3 paint to thinner, and not had a problem.  I may have to do an experiment this evening, see how far I can "stretch" the pigment count!

Wingman asked about FS numbers.  The link below will let you input many different types of paint and get their corresponding FS numbers as well as other paints that match it as well.  A very useful tool!

http://www.paint4models.com/index.html

Chris

Here's the link to the aforementioned post:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=213091

I just read that post.  I do know that with alcohol you can thin most paints far more than with Future or water.  That being said don't ever thin Vallejo with alcohol!

It turns into a resin!  It curdles and will leave a huge mess in your airbrush.  Thin with water, or Future, or Golden's airbrush medium, or even Vallejo's propriatary thinner.  Not alcohol.

Chris

Saw that...I know there are a few paints that you don't ever thin with alcohol (Vallejo and Lifecolor being the two that leap to mind), but I've also read posts by those who swear it works for them. 

Personally, if I can skip on the alcohol, awesome. It's definitely better than turpentine or laquer thinner, but I'll take distilled water or Windex any day...

Windex, especially if you get the version that still has ammonia in it, will attack acrylics.  I'd stay away from it.  If you don't want to use Future as a thinner, then make up a bottle of 50-50 distilled water and Golden's airbrush medium.  Use this concoction to thin your Vallejo paints to the consistancy you like to work with!

Chris

Weird...I had decent results using Windex to thin Lifecolor, when their own thinner didn't seem to do that great a job. 

Killjoy

Windex, especially if you get the version that still has ammonia in it, will attack acrylics.  I'd stay away from it. 

The ammonia-free Windex is little more than water, Isopropyl alcohol and a littel detergent.

and fragrence...and who knows what else.  Want to see a mess, put Vallejo in iso alcohol.  Watch it curdle or turn into little color blobs floating in a clear sea.

Trust me on this, I have been using Vallejo for almost 10 years.  Just thin it with water, acrylic thinner, or Future.  You'll be much happier.

Chris

Killjoy

Want to see a mess, put Vallejo in iso alcohol.  Watch it curdle or turn into little color blobs floating in a clear sea.

Same thing happens with Denatured alcohol/ethanol. Chunky lumps. 

Tony

As I said I'VE never had much luck with Tamiya acrylics, using both old (larger pots) & new (smaller pots) stocks, thinning with Isopropyl, Car windscreen wash, water, Tamiya thinners, Medea a/b cleaner, etc.
I've used Badger 200, badger 150, Iwata HP-C, & 2 different compressors & it still sprays like treacle or water for me!

The paint finish looks like dusty pebbledash to me, lumpy & didn't stick well, but that might just be me!

One of the guys in my hobby club uses cellulose (lacquer) thinners, & gets good results, but I've not tried that, as I switched from enamels for social & health reasons.

As said, I like Vallejo because it sprays very well, doesn't smell, is easy to handle, 'shake & drip', & cleanup is pleasant, I'm far more likely to just paint eg, fire extinguishers as required, rather than pile it ip for a major session, but I still have a lot to learn  

Jon_a_its

The paint finish looks like dusty pebbledash to me, lumpy & didn't stick well, but that might just be me!

Hi Jon,

That's a classic symptom of spraying at too great a distance or too high a pressure, causing the paint to dry in mid-air before it reaches the surface you're painting.

Try reducing your pressure and get up close and personal (inside 6 inches, preferably 4 if not covering a wide area). Thin your paint about 2 parts thinner to one part paint. (using Iso or Tamiya's proprietary thinner).

Jon_a_its

Tony

As I said I'VE never had much luck with Tamiya acrylics, using both old (larger pots) & new (smaller pots) stocks, thinning with Isopropyl, Car windscreen wash, water, Tamiya thinners, Medea a/b cleaner, etc.
I've used Badger 200, badger 150, Iwata HP-C, & 2 different compressors & it still sprays like treacle or water for me!

The paint finish looks like dusty pebbledash to me, lumpy & didn't stick well, but that might just be me!

One of the guys in my hobby club uses cellulose (lacquer) thinners, & gets good results, but I've not tried that, as I switched from enamels for social & health reasons.

As said, I like Vallejo because it sprays very well, doesn't smell, is easy to handle, 'shake & drip', & cleanup is pleasant, I'm far more likely to just paint eg, fire extinguishers as required, rather than pile it ip for a major session, but I still have a lot to learn  

Wow I can't see how this is even possible. I've been spraying Tamiya acrylics for years, and they're specially formulated for airbrush use. Vallejo is a fantastic paint range, and I've started slowly switching over to using them exclusively for hand-brushing, but that's it. Tamiya lays down smooth, can be thinned with distilled water, although I use their thinner for the best results. Their paint range doesn't have the greatest variance, but they provide you enough to be able to paint straight out of the bottle for a reasonable facsimile, or mix any colour you wish. Absolutely fantastic paints for airbrushing. The fact that you've tried so much and still fail is very questionable, and there is probably something wrong in your methodology rather than the paint. Individuals across many hobby forums have been having typically very good results with Tamiya paints.

Just picked up a few bottles of Vallejo at the LHS during lunch. Hoping to try them out this evening and see how they spray. 

I also find it remarkably odd that the Vallejo analog for Flat Gull Grey is Deck Tan. They look pretty close in the bottles, but I bought a bottle of "bluer" grey to tone it down if it comes out too tan-looking...