masking acrylics.

you should try using enamals because they chemicly bond with the plastic.

QUOTE: Originally posted by lilmodeler you should try using enamals because they chemicly bond with the plastic.

I've been using enamels, just thought I'd try something different...guess is should just use acrylic for detail stuff of top of the enamels.

Griz,
Do you wash and prime your model before laying down your acrylic coat? Washing will remove oils and such from the plastic that could interfere with paint adhesion. I also use an enamel primer coat that the acrylic will stick to much better. I’ve heard that some people use acrylic primers as well, but I prefer the adhesion of the enamel primer.

I prefer Tamiya acrylics and I rarely have paint lifting problems unless I skip one of these steps.

Hi Griz,
I've found that if you wash the kit parts first, then use Tamiya acrylics, you need "Easy-Off" oven cleaner to get the paint off if you need to. If you want to use acrylics and you already wash the plastic, try using Tamiya paints and Tamiya masking tape (has just the right tack) to mask. I know for a fact these products work so I use them as a preference and always spray direct onto plastic ( no undercoat). I don't believe Tamiya recommend an enamel undercoat for their acrylics (kinda defeats the advantages of the health and safety benefits of acrylic paints in the first place) although Testors may, I don't know. I've seen a few posts regarding problems with Testors acrylics peeling off like you mention, maybe this is something they need to look at. In saying that, I find their enamels are great. Hope this helps.

Cheers...Snowy.

I've had Tamiya Acrylics come if with warm water before...even after a week of drying time...so you have to be careful with Acryls.

I also use Tamiya masking tape and I've rarely had a problem. You can also check out a product called Parafilm-M for complex shapes like canopies. It works great and it won't lift any paint.

ive experienced lift from polyscale and mm acryl, but none with tamiya. i use tamiya exclusively (and i use the reccomended tamiya thinner as well) without frustration; i practically whistle while i work. im with snowy, wash your models thouroughly before assembly. once you have it assembled, wash it again before you paint it. i usually use windex and a saturated q-tip to bath my model, then, i wipe it clean using a regular paper towel. go over it again with distilled water to remove any windex residue, and wipe it down with a tack cloth from walmart automotive section, or a dollar general floor swiffer refill ( the dry ones are lint free and cheap, plus dust is attracted to the things). i never hold the model with my bare fingers, put on a latex glove or a soft cloth glove to handle the model. ive never had lift problems using tamiya acrylics. i prime my models with either gloss black or gloss white from tamiya just to add depth to the overall finish, not for paint bite factors.

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog i prime my models with either gloss black or gloss white from tamiya just to add depth to the overall finish, not for paint bite factors.

Any reason you use gloss and not flat for priming?

Hey, I guess I am not the only one with this problem. Just getting back into modeling and I heard that acrylics was the way to go. I do recall my last model, approx 15 years ago, I used acrylics and had a problem with the stuff lifting.

So, I tried it again on my current project. Did all the right things, washed, shot the color, and let it sit for a week. This was all on the prop.
Went to mask for the yellow tips and guess what, some of the black came off with the tape.

I am going to try it one more time but use post it notes for the mask. If this doesn't work, I am going back to enamels for the fuse and wings. I do say that I really like acrylics for all the cockpit and interior stuff. It brushes great and dries fast.

I did also by Testors acrylics for the outside colors and now I am a little hesitant to use that given the fact that there is a possibility that that will lift off too.

I've never personally had Tamiya acrylic lift but this topic certainly highlights the number of variables we are dealing with here and technique can be a player also. This problem could be very complex. Which got me thinking about another "X" in the equation. All these "Magic" thinning formulas we read about, how are they affecting paint adhesion? You know the ones, Windex, Listerine, straight-up alcohol, a dash of flow aid, drying retarders, distilled water, etc. How could these affect adhesion? Well we all know straight up alcohol can be used to thin acrylic paints, we also all know this can cause the paint to dry very rapidly, sometimes even on it's way to the model surface. If the paint is almost dry as it hits the model this MUST reduce it's adhesion as compared to a "wetter" spray. The modeler who's technique involves spraying a little closer or with less air pressure will use this formula without problems, but another who sprays from further away (his normal distance say with Tamiya thinner, no probs) or with more pressure has now introduced problems with poor adhesion (his paint is almost dry when it lands on the surface and won't stick as well ), yet they are both using the same paint /thinner. As we know the first thing he will blame is the other guys "Magic" alcohol thinner, yet the other guy is not having problems. Lots of variables here.

Cheers...Snowy.

Snowy,
You hit it right on the head!

Very good points Snowy.

I would also add that there are other variables that come into play also such as temperature and humidity where you are painting.

Mike

this is to answer thevinman.

i use both flat and gloss for primer. i recently read about a guy using gloss for primer and he got a smoother surface to work with so i figured i would try it. its probably been tried before, but i have the brain storm below that im going to try to achieve a subtle panel line look, along with a splotchy looking paint job that the USN is the master of.
i dont like applying a gloss coat after my model is painted, applying a wash, then applying a dull coat. i read it in an article once (and ive been trying to find the article so i could give you the link but i cant find it). the guy primed his armor model with gloss black to give the subsequent layers a smooth finish and also to add depth to the camo. im about to assemble an A-4 skyhawk and these are the steps i plan to take to paint the model
1. apply gloss white as a primer coat
2. apply a black artist oils wash to all panel lines and raised detail
3. wipe off all excess oil paint
4. mix and apply a lightened color of light ghost gray
5. add a little tint to the said paint and spray hap hazardly along panel lines and kinda hit the interior of the panels.
6.darken the color even more and adhere strictly to the panel lines and shadow areas. spraying at different distances from the subject to feather all three colors together.

i havent heard of appling an oil wash before painting the model, but i dont really like the harshness of the post wash thing. what the heck, its worth a try.

I have no problems with paint lifting using Tamiya acrylics, thinned 40% with Tamiya thinner.
I clean the model just prior to painting, using dishwashing detergent and a toothbrush, then rinse in warm water. I leave the model overnight to dry.

I use regular "decorators" masking tape from a DIY store. I have never used primer, I just make the first coat of base colour a very light dust coat.

Cheers

I don't think the brand of paint is really a factor in this discussion. There are obviously a slew of Tamiya fans in the audience. I personally prefer Gunze for their much broader range and the possibilities in colour matching that it brings to the table. That having been said, I've used Tamiya and Model Master acrylics as well. Both were relatively problem free in use. In all cases, the thinning component is alcohol (70%) at about 1:1.

I've gotten into the habit of washing my models before painting. As I do mainly airliners, the fuselages get a primer coat (Tamiya..and it stinks so much my wife has threatened to evict me!). But the wings and other bits just get a direct paint coat. No lifting with either method. I do wait for about a week (longer in summer when the humidity is up) before masking, though. This just gives the paint a chance to cure properly.

If you are having problems with water spotting or dissolving the paint, I might suggest that you coat the intended areas of work with Future prior to masking and or decalling. This will effectively seal the paint and shield it from the "elements".

As for the earlier suggestion of using enamels...not necessary! Once you've found a formula that works with acrylics, you'll appreciate their ease of use and cleanup. I'd rather spnd my time doing the model than cleaning the mess.

I tend to use a mix of paints when I am finishing a model, Tamiya, Model Master and Polly Scale so finding something that won't damage them all is a chore. The aforementioned ParaFilm M works terrific and has never lifted any paint., but I am using 'low-tack' tape that I then run across the palm of my hands to reduce the adhesion even more. Sometimes I'll get lift, but a quick touch up with the airbrush (and I'll change the tint of the paint a bit) looks like a field repair.

If I have an extensive taping job ahead of me, I put on a coat of Future and let it dry for a few days. I find it much easier to use the low-tack tape to a gloss coat (not as many seepage problems as with a flat or semi-gloss coat).

If you are masking canopies, do the future thing, and use Bare Metal Foil or something similiar. When removing the foil, even after a few months (it takes me a while to get back to the plane sometimes), the remaining glue comes of easily with Goo Gone and the future coat does not seem to be affected (tip from FSM Magazine article, and it WORKS!).

Good luck!

Hi guys, having problem with paint lifting, a nigthmare! One of the solutions was given in the above mail was using Parafilm-M, and that´s a great use of the stuff. You can also try contact film used for decorations, or painter´s tape, etc. I´ve used all of them, some times sticking the tape to a clean glass to remove some of the stickiness. But was has given me best results is Post-It, yes the 3M brand, that you can get in any supermarket, bookstore, etc. you only have to worry for the "lift off" when using the spraygun, so a combination of the tapes, that is Post-It, then painters tape or any other thing you have handy. Post-It has the exact adhesion for a model painter. Hope this tip serves you.

You could also look into some of the low-tack masking tapes that painter's use for automotive. I have also heard that artist's frisket works well as it is low-tack also.

Mike