Model Master acrylics (My first try with them)

I have been following this thread becaue I was having trouble spraying acrylics. I took the test results from plasticmod992 and tried some Golden airbrush medium as a thinner. Success!!!!!!!!!! I might be a beliver in acrylics again. Thanks.

Greg,

Thanks for the compliments on those two kits I built.
Coming from you that is an honor.

Yes, I have began to have an increased interest in modeling again and am working on the Revell 1/48 F-15E and that old Monogram 1/48 A-1H Skyraider I mentioned in another post. My son is almost 17 and he is working on an Italeri 1/72 F-15E also. He bought it when I bought mine so that we could build them at the same time
Hopefully I stick with it this time but that is hard for me to do with hobbies.
I have about 3 or 4 that I seem to rotate around.

Mike

Mike,

Yeah I must admit, I've had a "slight" change of heart, but my favorite acrylic is still Tamiya and Gunze. By the way..I saw your photo postings of your F-16 and F-1, not bad my friend! Do you plan on getting back more seriously into modeling?

Greg,

Thanks for that update. Golden's does make great products and many people argue that they produce the best acrylic paints there are...period.

So, has this changed your mind about MM Acryl or not?
Do you still prefer Tamiya?

Mike

Just completed my test of the MM Acryl paint with some intersting results. The colors I tested were the Navy Gray, Flat Black and Flat White. I started off by thinning the paints using the manufactuers thinner, then house-hold thinners such as distilled water and alcohol, and finally comercially available diluats such as Golden brand Airbrush medium and like. For the tests I used my Iwata Revolution HP-CR. With each color I tested general spraying and fine-line work. Starting with the Navy Gray I thinnned the paint 2:1 using the Testors thinner. I set the compressor to approx. 15psi and sprayed a sheet of styrene. The paint sprayed great, smooth thin, even film resulted but 2 minutes into spraying, the airbrush tip began to dry and clog. A quick wipe of the tip with Testors Dried Piant Solvent cured this and painting was resumed. Next I thinned the Gray with distilled water at the same ratio. The resulting spray film was very smooth on the styrene but the spraying characteristics were very intermitted, unpredictable and a steady spray could not be maintained for any length of time. As with the Acryl thinner the airbrush clogged fast. I then tried thinning with 70% Isoprohpol Alcohol at the same ratio. While stirring the paint mix in a spare film canistir it began to thicken rapidly and suddenely coagulate into a disgusting sludge! I then tried the Gray with Golden Airbrush Medium; an airbrush thinner intended for use for Golden Acrylics airtists airbrush paints. I thinned the Acryl Gray at the same ratio and the result was very smooth spraying, little to no clogs of the airbrush, and I smooth paint film on the styrene. Now very curious, I tried the Flat Black and Flat White colors with the same results! The next phase was fine-line spraying. I thinned the paints at a 1:1 mix with an approx psi of about 9 or so and began spraying a camo-outline on a scrap model. The result was very surprising; I was able to maintain a very thin line of approx 1/16 inch, there was no clogging on the airbrush tip, and the resulting paint film was smooth. Clean up was best with Testors Acryl Dried Paint Solvent. Windex did ok to fush the airbrush between colors but didn't budge the dried paint in the color cup or paint passages. So as it stands for me right now, it seems that Golden Airbrush Medium worked the best at thinning, performance, and integrity of the paint film on styrene. Second place would be Testors own Acryl thinner. Golden A/B Medium is 100% acrylic copolymer in it and on the bottle states that when mixed with acrylics helps decrease clogging and improves paint flow. It did exactly that! It can be found at your local Art Supply stores. A Club member of mine suggested using Denatured Alcohol instead of 70% Isoprophol for the Acryls so I will try it next and get back with you all.

No, Polly Scale and Model Master Acryl are different formulations.

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog well josh, they looked and tasted like chocolate covered coffee beans. the guy that handed them to me was clean cut lifer. can't never tell though.

well josh, they looked and tasted like chocolate covered coffee beans. the guy that handed them to me was clean cut lifer. can't never tell though.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga I'm a bit jealous. I live off of the Folgers I keep in my freezer. I use the darkest I can find. Good beans are very expensive and I don't think I could keep up. It's not like you can sell this stuff on a street corner to support your habit. You shouldn't store coffee in the freezer, especially whole beans as the freezer dries out the natural oils in the bean. Mike

Well I buy the pre ground as I don't have a grinder. That is a good tip, I've always kept it in the freezer on the assumption it'd keep it from getting stale once it was opened. I'll have to transfer to the pantry I suppose.

Chris, are you sure they were just coffee beans? I suppose you had no trouble getting through the watch after that eh?

I just used polyscale paints in my paasche H today and they worked great. I know that polyscale and MM are both owned by testors. Are they similar

you guys are killin' me, im gonna have to go and try this stuff again! i hadn't touched my hobby in 3 weeks because its crunch time on the house im building. gots to close on the sucker in 3 weeks and i just got the cabinets built! anyway, i read these posts and wonder if i shouldnt go back, dust off the old poly and mm bottles and experiment yet again. i havent tried thinning them with distilled water and tamiya thinner.speakin of the coffee bean thing, i was in the navy years back and we had to stand long boring watches in the combat information center. one nite, i was repeatedly head butting the console i was assigned to , this guy woke me from my slumber and said "here, eat these man!". they were chocolate covered coffee beans he had picked up from some country we had visited. i ate about a dozen before i could stop myself. wide awake for 36 hrs with plenty of energy to spare!!!!!! later

I've had good luck with the MM Acryl paints when I follow the recommendations at the Testors website (www.testors.com) for thinning ratios. Look up your paint by number and see; no comment on thinning means you don't need to thin. Hope this helps.

Chris

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga I'm a bit jealous. I live off of the Folgers I keep in my freezer. I use the darkest I can find. Good beans are very expensive and I don't think I could keep up. It's not like you can sell this stuff on a street corner to support your habit.

You shouldn't store coffee in the freezer, especially whole beans as the freezer dries out the natural oils in the bean.

Mike

I'm a bit jealous. I live off of the Folgers I keep in my freezer. I use the darkest I can find. Good beans are very expensive and I don't think I could keep up. It's not like you can sell this stuff on a street corner to support your habit.

Josh,

I hear you about coffee.
My wife works for a big coffee roasting company here and I get mine free.
I am spoiled now and have acquired a taster for good coffee and my favorite has become the organically grown arabica beans that she brings me.
It's the best coffee I have ever tasted.
I'm glad it's free as I wouldn't be able to afford the price of this stuff. [:0]

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog so, after 25 posts, we've come full circle! it aaaaaaaallllllllll boils down to personal preference. [:0] kinda like coffee, i like mine black with a little sugar in it. i get up every morning and stick a coffee cup full of water in the microwave, slap a folgers "tee bag" style bag in it, let it rip for 3 minutes 50 secs and voila, my morning coffee. is this the only way to enjoy coffee? no, but i like it!

I set mine up the night before with a timer for just before I wake up. I like mine strong strong strong and black with some sugar as well. I probably drink 8 of the 10 cups the pot makes every day, unless I'm really sleepy, then I drink the whole pot. Coffee is wonderful, even though when you think about it, it's just water poured through crushed roasted beans. Reminds me of a great ska song.

I just sprayed Model Master Acryl semi gloss black to one of my models and I was really impressed with the smooth beautiful finish I got. The paint was gradually thinned to the consistency of milk with a 50:50 mixture of distilled water and Tamiya thinner and sprayed at 26 PSI through my Paasche H. Humidity isn't a problem up here in southeastern B.C., but it is winter right now so I work at my spray booth.

For me getting a good finish is difficult - I also practiced spraying their primer gray (semi gloss) and discovered that I needed to turn up the air pressure to get the smooth finish I wanted. At 15-20 PSI I seemed to get a lot of orange peel like the paint wasn't atomizing properly or something like that.

I can also tell you that I built up the finish in ultra thin coats - using a lot of patience and a lot of coats.

But I don't have to put up with all that humidity either or scorching heat (except in the summer when we get 100 degree days but not that much humidity).

so, after 25 posts, we've come full circle! it aaaaaaaallllllllll boils down to personal preference. [:0] kinda like coffee, i like mine black with a little sugar in it. i get up every morning and stick a coffee cup full of water in the microwave, slap a folgers "tee bag" style bag in it, let it rip for 3 minutes 50 secs and voila, my morning coffee. is this the only way to enjoy coffee? no, but i like it!

I agree with saltydog as paints are as personal as airbrush preference.
The one thing that is true though is that enamels and lacquers chemically attach to the plastic and are the best at doing this and rarely lift when masked.
The acrylics on the other hand while being easy to spray ,and less toxic, can at times have adhesion problems due to their not attaching as well as the enamels/lacquers to the surface. That does not mean that you cannot have excellent results with them as many here can attest to.
The choice is yours gdarwin as to what works better for you.
Do you have a way to exhaust the fumes from enamels and lacquers?
If you don't then I would give Tamiya, Testors, Poly Scale, or some other acrylics a try and see what you like.
There are some very good modelers on here who can help out with mixing ratios, thinners, etc. with whatever you decide to try.

Mike

all of you're questions are quite relative gdarwin, theres really no right or wrong answer. personal preference is key. i personally use exclusively tamiya acrylic because its easy to clean, sprays great through my ab, no fumes, and easier on my lungs and families well being. try a container of each, see what you think. as for buying an airbrush, i own an omni 5000 gravity feed and love it. bought through the mail at dixieart.com. buy a double action brush whatever you do. it'll be more difficult to master, but its worth it in the end.

hi all.Help after reading the comments on the paints i dont know what to do.I use humbrol enamel for most of my models,and i have tryed Tamiya acrylic ,the probmem is i want to try an airbrush,should i use enamel or acrylic.How do i mix them,and what gives the best finish.Any help you can give me will be great thanks.

gdarwin

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeeves I am glad to see this topic MikeV as I am soon to begin painting my Texan with the MM Acryl Insignia Yellow (the other dreaded color)-- I primed the plane with Gloss White-- so now-- should I use thinnned yellow-- or straight from the bottle?? It does seem thin....

Jeeves,

Try it both ways on a scrap model or plastic styrene sheet and see what covers better.
Try it straight out of the bottle first and if you see it grainy or spattering then try thinning it and see what works.
These paints seem to have a variance of how they spray as was noted by CNicoll.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by plasticmod992 MikeV, Glad to see your post reference the MM Acryl paints. I was wondering if you plan on doing more testing using the Acryl "fine-line" thinner to check its performance. I have a few new bottles of the Acryl; flat black, Gunship grey and white that I will test with you and compare results.

Sounds good Greg. I would like to see what results you come up with my friend.

QUOTE: I was glad to see that you had good results with 70% alocohol and tap water, I was curious about using regular tap versus distiled water.

Actually I didn't notice much difference between the tap water and paint at 2:1 and the 70% alcohol with the paint at 2:1. I didn't add any water to the alcohol though so that could be another test I guess. I thought the flat white sprayed better straight from the bottle than it did thinned as it seems more thin than the gunship gray was.

QUOTE: As you had acurately recalled, tip-dry is a big pet peeve with me, especially when trying to spray fine lines for an intricate camo-scheme. You got me very curious about your Omni airbrush(s) as I am in the mood to buy and try one, what size is the needle/nozzle on your 4000?

I don't know the exact size of the Omni needle and tip but it is listed in Airbrush Action Magazine's "Airbrush Buyers Guide" as being in the .36-.40mm category which is a little bigger than your Eclipse CS which is in the .26-.30mm category.

QUOTE: Well I'll get back to you and the gang and share my spray testing results. Hey MikeV can you mention what cleaners work best for you.

The cleaner I normally use for acrylic paints is the mixture I have posted here before of 2 parts distilled or filtered water, 1 part Windex and 1 part Simple Green.
I did notice that the MM acrylics did not come off as easy with this cleaner as with the Createx and Aqua Flow T-shirt paints I use(not for modeling). If I notice the color cup not cleaning as well or as fast as I would like, then I just get out the lacquer thinner and show that paint who is boss.

I look forward to your tests Greg as you seem very knowledgable about paints and painting techniques in this hobby. I still have a lot to learn from you veterans.

Mike

I am glad to see MikeV really give the MM paint a try. I've had really good luck with the MM paints over the past few years. I exclusively thin with MM thinner, but might try some of the ones MikeV did. I've found some of the paints doe need thinning and others do not. I wish it was a bit more consistent, but having something to practice on really helps. I keep and old 1/48 B-17 wing from the Monogram kit.

What I have found is that plastic prep is very important. The Polly S cleaner really does the trick, although dishwasher soap does too in a pinch. Get some cotton gloves to help you handle the model before you paint.

Chris

I am glad to see this topic MikeV as I am soon to begin painting my Texan with the MM Acryl Insignia Yellow (the other dreaded color)-- I primed the plane with Gloss White-- so now-- should I use thinnned yellow-- or straight from the bottle?? It does seem thin....

MikeV,

Glad to see your post reference the MM Acryl paints. I was wondering if you plan on doing more testing using the Acryl "fine-line" thinner to check its performance. I have a few new bottles of the Acryl; flat black, Gunship grey and white that I will test with you and compare results. I was glad to see that you had good results with 70% alocohol and tap water, I was curious about using regular tap versus distiled water. As you had acurately recalled, tip-dry is a big pet peeve with me, especially when trying to spray fine lines for an intricate camo-scheme. You got me very curious about your Omni airbrush(s) as I am in the mood to buy and try one, what size is the needle/nozzle on your 4000?
Well I'll get back to you and the gang and share my spray testing results. Hey MikeV can you mention what cleaners work best for you. A little info on my tools for the tests:

Paints:
Acryl- Flat Black, Flat white, Gunship Grey, Clear Goss, Clear Flat, Acryl dried paint solovent

Airbrush:
Iwata Eclipse HP-CS .35mm tip
Revolution HP-CR .5mm tip

I've painted 18 models this year and everyone was done with MM Acryl or Tamiya. Absolutely no complaints from my Badger 150 or me other than finding the volume of paint at the LHS or color colors I need. I have had a little trouble with paint buildup on the tips but what can you expect if you don't flush or clean the tip from time to time. Personally, it's hard to beat water clean-up of the A brush and when I do get a little heavy handed, tap water repairs the boo-boo's. Here in West Tennessee it's pretty humid even in the winter months. All my painting is done indoors so temp is not an issue.

I tried the flat white last night and it was much tougher to spray than the gunship gray was, but then again white has always been known as one of the toughest colors to spray well, along with yellow.
I tried it mixed 2:1 with tap water and it seemed to not cover well even though I had good success with the gunship gray and that mixture.
I then tried spraying the flat white straight from the bottle and it came out better.
I don't know how well the adhesion will be as I will test that later tonight and see.
It was a little cold at 54 degrees in the garage for painting, but it was only 60 degrees when I had the success with the gunship gray so maybe that isn't too cold.
I also shot the flat black straight from the bottle and it went on fairly well also, but the one thing I don't like about it is that the black color is not really that "black" if you know what I mean.
It appears more along the lines of dark gray mixed with black instead of having that deep black color like the Model Master flat black enamel does.
I mixed the bottle well before spraying also so that is not the problem.

Mike

I went and bought two more bottles of Model Master Acrylic tonight to try and see if I just had good results with that Gunship Gray color.
I bought flat black and flat white this time and I will try them and let you all know if I have the same success with them.

Mike