New to Enamels,advice appreciated.

rudedog

 

DoogsATX:

 

They don't make a metal kote equivalent that I've seen. Also, I'm finding cure times can be really long. I think it's because I thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner when I was painting the Yak. IIRC it has a drying retarder in it. Tamiya lacquer thinner seems to dry to the touch in standard enamel time.

 

  DoogsATX, My head is spinning from all this info.What paint are you referring to when you said to use Tamiya lacquer thinner with ? thanks, rudedog

 

White Ensign Colourcoats (enamels)

DoogsATX

They don't make a metal kote equivalent that I've seen. Also, I'm finding cure times can be really long. I think it's because I thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner when I was painting the Yak. IIRC it has a drying retarder in it. Tamiya lacquer thinner seems to dry to the touch in standard enamel time.

They don't make a metal kote equivalent that I've seen. Also, I'm finding cure times can be really long. I think it's because I thinned with Mr. Leveling Thinner when I was painting the Yak. IIRC it has a drying retarder in it. Tamiya lacquer thinner seems to dry to the touch in standard enamel time.

Doogs

Thanks for the report. I will start using it too as I replenish my stock of ancient Humbrol paints. Does WE also make the Metal Kote line like Humbrol's? It's easily brushed and looks like real metal when lightly polished.

Just came in from spraying White Ensign for the first time.

HOLY CRAP.

This is the best paint I've ever used. Period. Thins perfectly. Sprays as good as Tamiya when you've got Tamiya dialed in. It can go fine or full bore with no problems, no spatter, no dusting. Coverage is excellent.

Consider me a convert.

John

Thanks for the clarification. Too bad Humbrol switched, they had excellent quality. I'll be swithching to WE.

plastickjunkie

 

DoogsATX:

 

White Ensign Colourcoats - Picked up several tins for the two Soviet planes I'm building, but I haven't cracked them open yet. Still, I've heard pretty glowing reviews, so I'm hopeful.

 

 

I was told at one of the shows that WE is about the same as Humbrol and are really good for airbrushing and hand brushing. I wonder if its Humbrol under a new label?

WEM Colourcoats are not the same as Humbrol. Humbrol is now manufactured in China (which is why they're having quality control problems and color inconsistencies). Colourcoats are manufactured in England, using custom-ground pigments.

Regardless,I appreciated your input.We're near in the same boat. This has become a Rapidly changing & advancing hobby.When I was 13 ,I went to Hobby show & saw a Shelby 350. I was hooked.It transformed into Mil. stuff after a long term with U.ncleS.ams M.isguided C.hildren .Throughout all my occupations over the past three decades,this hobby I love seems to be the most difficult to nail down.Maybe that's why some of us keep trying new approaches !  rudedog

plastickjunkie

 

DoogsATX:

 

White Ensign Colourcoats - Picked up several tins for the two Soviet planes I'm building, but I haven't cracked them open yet. Still, I've heard pretty glowing reviews, so I'm hopeful.

 

 

I was told at one of the shows that WE is about the same as Humbrol and are really good for airbrushing and hand brushing. I wonder if its Humbrol under a new label?

According to a few reviews, WEM paints use the same formula as Hannants Xtracolor enamels, but in a satin finish for faster drying times.

I imagine the Humbrol comparisons are probably inevitable given that they both use those little paint tins.

Ridiculously eager to see how they spray...think I might have to make a test run tonight.

The Doog you're thinking of is Karl Logan... screename "The Doog."

rudedog

Is this the same Doog with the long hair & dirt bike from a few years ago ? Thanks for your reply.Somemore great ideas as those that responded when I started this thread.Sounds like you took some time away from this great hobby as well.With a New England winter approaching rapidly,The Kodiak ,FZ-6 & Camaro won't be occupying much of my time,so I thought I'd get my feet wet again.Did you have the same malady befall you as I during the absence ? My arm's seem to have gotten shorter & I now need reading glasses !!! Thanks again, rudedog

Nope, I'm not that Doog. Doogs is actually a nickname I've picked up along the way, and I'm so well known by it (our CEO calls me Doogs, for crying out loud) that I've just started using it for pretty much everything online.

Prior to this summer, I hadn't touched a model in ten years, and it was probably closer to fifteen since I'd built on a regular basis. 

Things have definitely changed, though! Picked up a pair of glasses last year after I started getting eyestrain from staring at a computer all day. Still get eyestrain if I have to stare at tiny parts for too long (cutting vacform canopies is the worst in that regard). Thankfully I seem to have picked up a bit more patience somewhere along the way, though!

DoogsATX

White Ensign Colourcoats - Picked up several tins for the two Soviet planes I'm building, but I haven't cracked them open yet. Still, I've heard pretty glowing reviews, so I'm hopeful.

I was told at one of the shows that WE is about the same as Humbrol and are really good for airbrushing and hand brushing. I wonder if its Humbrol under a new label?

I've used both and favor enamels, specially Humbrol enamels in the little tins. They brush on evenly and cover on the first coat. Exellent results when airbrushing too. Others swear by acrylics and refuse to go back to enamels. Try them both and see which you like better.

Is this the same Doog with the long hair & dirt bike from a few years ago ? Thanks for your reply.Somemore great ideas as those that responded when I started this thread.Sounds like you took some time away from this great hobby as well.With a New England winter approaching rapidly,The Kodiak ,FZ-6 & Camaro won't be occupying much of my time,so I thought I'd get my feet wet again.Did you have the same malady befall you as I during the absence ? My arm's seem to have gotten shorter & I now need reading glasses !!! Thanks again, rudedog

Don Stauffer

1) slower drying.  Admittedly enamel takes patience. It takes several days for gloss enamel to thoroughly dry so you can do other things with painted parts.

Actually, when you're working with gloss paints, acrylics (eg. Tamiya and Gunze) can take just as long (or even longer) as enamels to cure. While it's true that acrylics dry faster, they can take far longer to cure and harden. I've had Tamiya and Gunze gloss paints which, although touch-dry, were still soft a week or more after application. No such problems with the flat paints however.

Acrylics also require more attention to surface preparation - the surface must be absolutely clean and free of oil and dust or you will have adhesion issues. This is critical if your paint job involves any measure of masking. Enamels are less sensitive to this.

stikpusher

Boba I have tried Vallejos and am not sold on them for handbrushing. I have read the success that others have had with them, but not in my own expereinces. They are better than most, but still inferior to Humrol enamels to me. The only Acrylics I ever really liked for handbrushing was Polly S, but that line is long gone.

Heya Carlos,

If you tried brush painting Vallejo straight out of the bottle, you probably found they globbed up, dried on the brush and didn't stick well to the plastic. There's a trick or two to working successfully with Vallejo Model Color paints.

• Shake well and when you think you've shaken it enough, shake it some more
• thin the paint - it's usually too thick straight out of the bottle
• moisten your brush before dipping it in the paint. Dip your brush in distilled water and then touch the tip to a paper towel to remove most of it. You want it moist but not wet.
• always use a nice flat primer to give the paint something to grip.

I might add that I've been using Tamiya acrylics for nearly 30 years and they're my first preference, but I also have a number of Gunze Acrylics, some Vallejo, and several jars of Mr Color paints.

When I was getting back into modeling this summer and getting the bench all set up and whatnot, I had every intention of choosing one brand of paint.

Yeah.

Just a few months in, and I'm all over the map. I've got enamels, alcohol-based acrylics, water-based acrylics, and a few lacquers. It really depends on what you're going for...but I've come to the conclusion that there is no one perfect paint brand that encompasses airbrushability, brushability, low toxicity, ease of cleanup, etc. Every paint is a compromise and it's a matter of picking the right tool for the right job.

I'm far from an expert, but here are my takes on the paints I've played with so far:

Testors Model Master Enamel - Tried and true. Brushes pretty well. Airbrushes pretty well. Cleans up with thinner, mineral spirits. Very good selection of colors. My paint of choice for drybrushing, hands down.

Testors Model Master Acryl - Used it once and threw it away. Some people love it. I'm not one of those. 

Tamiya - Use it for airbrushing only. I thin with either their lacquer thinner or Gunze Mr. Leveling Thinner. Both work well. Mixed right (in my case about 2:1 thinner:paint), with the right air pressure and distance, it's like spraying silk. Color selection is wanting, however.

Lifecolor - Good color selection. Brush paints well. Airbrushes like water, and not in a good way. Very thin paint that still manages to clog the brush if shot without thinner. Only way I ever got it to work was to build up coats in 7-10 layers. Also has very poor grip on plastic. 

Vallejo - Brush paints wonderfully well but dries out fast. Mixed 1:1 with Future, it airbrushes beautifully. You might face tip dry issues if you're spraying for a long time, but a wet q-tip fixes that. Great color selection but, in my experience, poor color matching with listed FS numbers.

Gunze-Sangyo Mr. Color - Awesome paint. I use their Mr. Surfacer as a primer, and sprayed some Mr. Color orange-yellow on my recently built Wildcats. Very impressed, even if it has a very strong smell. 

White Ensign Colourcoats - Picked up several tins for the two Soviet planes I'm building, but I haven't cracked them open yet. Still, I've heard pretty glowing reviews, so I'm hopeful.

Best of luck finding the paint(s) that work for you.

honestly, I got the EXACT OPPOSITE experience. I painted 2 figures (the heads) 1 with vallejo flesh, 1 with humbrol flesh. the vallejo went down perfectly, staying thin and catching detail, while being opaque. I tried humbrol 3 times, and each time I got a wildly gloss finish and it was thick and goopy... I mixed it, thinned it, DIDN'T thin it, you name it. And When I did thin it, I used their thinner. Just didn't work. But I guess everybody has a preference. I also like acrylics because I use oils for the skin tones, so I don't need a barrier between the acrylic while I would need one with humbrol.

Oh, and DEFINATELY agree with the Polly-S. Great stuff for handbrushing. Good coverage, thin, and about 10,000 colors. I like polly-S more than even my MM acrylics. CURSES!

Boba I have tried Vallejos and am not sold on them for handbrushing. I have read the success that others have had with them, but not in my own expereinces. They are better than most, but still inferior to Humrol enamels to me. The only Acrylics I ever really liked for handbrushing was Polly S, but that line is long gone.

Stikpusher,I keep hearing that enamels are the cat's ass for brushing.Especially for foigures,& I'm starting to get sold. Again,I'm jumping back in after a Retirement.I did enjoy the ease of clean -up with acrylic's.But for detail work,I was often globbed & frustrated. Thanks,  rudedog

stikpusher

I much prefer enamels over acrylics. Brush painting they win hands down for quality every time. You dont need to worry about adding retarders, etc. to make them easier to work with. I am a HUGE fan or Humbrols for handbrushing, especially for armor and figure models. They also dry brush far better than acrylics. Washes with enamels have worked out better in my expereince. The best Acrylic line I have used, Gunze's Aqueous, is no longer availble.

Eh, Vallejo is better than enamels for figs. Now for vehicles, yeah, humbrol is best for brushing.

I much prefer enamels over acrylics. Brush painting they win hands down for quality every time. You dont need to worry about adding retarders, etc. to make them easier to work with. I am a HUGE fan or Humbrols for handbrushing, especially for armor and figure models. They also dry brush far better than acrylics. Washes with enamels have worked out better in my expereince. The best Acrylic line I have used, Gunze's Aqueous, is no longer availble.

Exactly.I'm cursed & blessed at the same time not having to share time & $$ with a partner.Free time is great but.....   rudedog

Gotcha. I understand the feeling... lots of hobbies, not enough money.

I remember reading Doog's  replies & learned much from them. { back then ] . I like the Idea of doing a Tam model 1st,But like Doog,I have to shuffle money between A quad,A street bike & a Camaro I'm building. So I'm gonna have to run with what I have for now.I agree totally that Tamiya rules for ease of instruction [ & quality as well ].I'm afaraid I'm gonna have to start with the Dra. 251/22 for my rehab. What's the worst than can happen, It'll look like my 1st ?   rudedog

I used superglue on dragon T-80 tracks, and it was terrible. Karl (Doog) assembles lengths of track, and brushes liquid cement over the entire thing. (well, most of it) That seems to be the way to go. Personally, I'd go with a Tamiya kit instead of Dragon. Easy to understand, not too much in the way of miniscule parts, and engineered perfectly. An older kit (like their Panther A) would be nice. Not an accurate kit, but it looks like a panther and you can use it as a testing bed later. Just a thought.

Thanks for the encouragement,Boba. Next week when I dive back in,It's gonna be a Dragon  251/22. Pretty simple by most people's standards.Still researching which theatre & paint scheme.I have yet to do the "U.S. version,french 75MM or 105MM half-tracks,all being in the same genre.Just one of the topics that intersest me.I'd forgotten how vague Dragon instructions can be.Much akin to "throwing darts".Maybe it's me.As I stated earlier,next Monday [ 11/01/2010 ] is my D-day.At this moment,I am tempted to use the "E-Z " tracks.They represent a later model Track,But I figure I need all the help I can get.Which brings me to another Que. Do most use Liquid when assembling Indie trax, as I used to do, or is there a smarter way. Thanks, rudedog

Oh yeah, most stuff I've seen of Al's is great! Plus he's a great guy. Ask some advice of him, I'm sure he'll d a lot to help ya! Most experienced people enjoy helping out the "newbies" or people returning. I certainly do, and I'm not even that experienced!Good luck to ya!

Thanks again Boba.You are the 2nd person that confirmed what I already learned about Tamiya [ as far as being troublesome when used with a brush,such as figure's ]. It's funny how much you forgot what you learned after only a few year's away !!! [ if that makes any sense ]. I actually live very close to a modeller I feel is a true artist, Al Lefleche.I remember him being a regular contributer here. He's so far outta my league,I almost feel I'd be imposing on his very scarce time.Granted,I appreciate the time all of you experts take to impart your wisdom to all of us " Piker's "     rudedog .

Good luck! Yeah, just balance what you want in the paint. Whatever paint meets the most of your criteria is the one. Also remember, different brands do different things. Tamiya is a phenomenal acrylic, but only out of the airbrush. Never try brush painting it, unless on REALLY small parts. Model-master and Polly-s is average in both applications. Vallejo is great for the brush, but needs a lot of thinning for the airbrush. Also consider the colors you will want.  Some brands and types specialize in colors for specific genres. brand A. enamel might be good for WWII aircraft, but brand B. acrylic might be best for armor. take your time, because if you commit, you're comitted. At $3 per 1/2 ounce (average price) you're looking at several-hundred dollars for a gallon's worth of paint. So, choose wisely!