Future and how to flatten it

icit

Greetings,

I am painting with Tamiya  acrylic flats and want to put a semi gloss coat finish on my model. I have read a lot about adding tamiya flat to give me that finish but in the same articles it indicates that one shouldn't use the windex or amonia type cleaners because it "gums" up the tamyia product.  So could I use Model Master acrylic semi-gloss with the future on it or mixed or is there a cleaning solution I can use with the tamiya flat that will do the job without clogging my airbrush when sprayed?

ICIT

Do you have the links to the articles you read? Or the name and date of the publication?

Matt Swan mentioned the problem you asked about without offering an answer. I don't remember seeing the answer elsewhere either. Ammonia is a great cleaning solvent for water based paints, however, ammonia doesn't like brass or chrome and should be used only when nothing else works.  This means an icky green substance can build up inside your airbrush (brass core) and the exterior chrome plating can peel off over time.

Distilled water should be safe to use with Future. I spray Future with an old external mix airbrush only. Warm water seem to do an adequate job of cleaning. I wonder if the Tamiya Acrylic Thinner (X-20A) is a good cleaning agent for this mix if an internal mix airbrush is used.

I have had a very bad experience when trying to use MM acrylic with Polyscale thinner. Since then, I use acrylic paint with the same brand thinner only. That was my only experience of "gumming up". Future does not need thinning. The question is on effective cleaning only.

Make sure not to use too much of the Tamiya Flat Base (XF-21) which can turn Future into a frosty white coat.

I wouldn't consider using Tamiya X-20A thinner to clean up Future for the simple reason that it's far too expensive for the task. Denatured alcohol will rip it clean out of an airbrush if something stronger than water is required.

I and many others use Windex to clean up airbrushes and tools after using acrylic paints, including Tamiya. Not sure where your info came from about it gumming up but I've not found it to be true at all. As a side note, there doesn't seem to be any ammonia in Windex. Look at the material saftey data sheet and point out ammonia and I'll give you a cookie.

About the semi gloss finish. If you are using flat paints and want to produce a semi gloss result simply apply your color coats as you normally would then once done and dry spray a single light coat of straight Future over the paint. When the Future dries it will produce a semi gloss finish on the flat paint. It takes a lot of Future to gloss up a totally flat finish so don't sweat using to much.

In fact, it looks like Windex is mostly water.

http://www.mta.ca/administration/facilities/safety/msds/Custodial/Windex%20Blue%20glass%20cleaner.pdf

Thanks for the ideas. The Matt Swan article was the main article I was refering to and any other article I've read regarding Future doesn't even mention it.  As an alternative do you think using MM acrylic semi gloss over the future will accomplish what I'm after and solve my cleaning problem?

ICIT

I really can't answer that as 1) I don't see a cleaning problem and 2) I don't see a reason to use Future at all if you are going to use MM acry semi gloss as a final coat.
Maybe someone else who understands your question better will give you better info.

Thanks shooter, it might be a Canadian thing- its written right on the bottle that it has ammonia in it.  I will try your suggestion about the future on flat finishes, it makes sense.

ICIT

P.S. I like peanut butter cookies.

All bottles I have indicate "ammonia D", whatever that is, not ammonia. However, the msds doesn't indicate any ammonia either. I think it's a marketing gimick.

hkshooter

All bottles I have indicate "ammonia D", whatever that is, not ammonia. However, the msds doesn't indicate any ammonia either. I think it's a marketing gimick.

From the Windex web site:

Ammonia-D® is the trademark name for the ammonia in Windex®. The 'D' is part of the trademark name.

While your email did not indicate which Windex® product you were asking about, you should be aware that most of our Windex® products are glass and surface cleaners only, and not all formulas contain ammonia.

All but two Windex® Glass and Multi-Surface Cleaners contain detergents, solvents, fragrance, Ammonia-D®, and alcohol. They should not be used if ammonia is not recommended for use on surface.

(Windex® Multi-Surface Vinegar and Windex® Outdoor Multi-Surface do not contain ammonia. They are safe to use in these cases.)

They seemed to say that Windex does contain ammonia and should not be used if ammonia is NOT recommended..

Matt Swan is the only warning against Windex (or ammonia) cleaning when Tamiya Flat Base is used. Has anyone heard first hand account of gumming up in this situation?

Personally, I am concerned about effect of ammonia on brass and other metallic platings and avoid using Windex for cleaning. But I heard of many experienced modelers using Windex without any adverse effect and consider it an effective cleaner for airbrush.

I've used MM acryl gloss and flat for the finishing coats on the two models I've done since coming back to the hobby, and they work wonderfully.  I have a bottle of Future, but have so far only used it for dipping canopies.  I'm sure it works fine for the decal/weathering gloss coats, but I was turned off by instructions of waiting 48 hours for full curing before applying decals or weathering with washes.  The MM acryl clear gloss is dry just about as fast as the Vallejo Model Air paints I use for the color coats... about 10 seconds after it hits the model.    

By volume, I'm sure the Future is about 1/100th the cost, but a large bottle of MM clear acryl (gloss and flat) is still only $5 or so and will last 5-6 models at least at the rate I'm using it, which is half a year of production for me or more.  

If you're spraying Future for the decal/weathering gloss coats already, though, I'm not sure the MM semi-gloss is going to look much different to you once it goes on.  As others have noted, it takes a ton of even the MM gloss clear to get a truly glossy appearance.  I stop after a few coats where it looks merely semi-gloss, as the decals don't seem to mind and the thin panel line washes wick just peachy.

It's easy to flatten Future: Simply lay a bottle of Future on a busy street or highway, then just wait for the next car or truck to run over it.

I use Acrylic paint cleaner from any art supply store, cheap enough to use to clean my airbrush and seems to work well. Been using it for a few years, worked on my Testors and Tamiya airbrush.

If you are using acrylic paint you can mix some Future in for a semi gloss finish. It actually sprays smoother. You can also brush on Future and while wet, lay your decal on it and brush a little more Future on top of the decal. This method works on decals that have clear film between the images and are prone to silvering. This will  completely remove that silvering effect.