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Fine Line Airbrush

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Tucson, AZ
Fine Line Airbrush
Posted by lgevent on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 8:53 PM

Hi all,

I know everyone has their opinion, but I was wondering what the general concencus was for which airbrush was good for painting fine lines.

I have started working on 1/72 German WWII armor and want a brush capable of painting freehand camo schemes. I have been working with an Aztec A470, with the fine tip (tan) and using mostly ModelMaster and Vallejo Model Air acrylics, which I cannot get fine enough (have tried thinning, turning the pressure up/down, changing paint brands, pretty much everything and can’t get the darn thing to work).

I am not new to airbrushing (15+ years with a Paasche H) but I am somewhat new to double action(as I have been working with my Aztec). I would like to be able to continue to use acrylics (greater color range, easy cleaning ). As I have a family I do not have a lot of time to spend on my projects, I don’t want a brush that I have to have a PHD to learn how to use it (easy learning curve) and one that does not take a lot of time to clean.

I know that this topic is pretty broad but I was just getting opinions so any advice will be helpful.

By the way, I was looking at a Paasche VL with all 3 needles on sale at a local hobby shop. Is it any good? I have read some of the posts regarding this brush but they don’t seem to answer my question.

Thanks in advance.

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Indiana
Posted by hkshooter on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 9:48 PM

Your question is as big as the sun and you are right, there are as many opinions as there are , well, you know.
IMHO, the VL is not a good fine line brush. You want thin paint and low pressure for fine work and suction type brushes don't submit well to working with low psi.
Get a good gravity brush. A friend of mine swears by Grex. I prefer Iwata and use both a CR and an HP-C.

  • Member since
    May 2015
Posted by Gordon D. King on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 10:11 PM

I use a Badger 200 with an extra fine needle when I want to paint fine lines like you are suggesting.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 11:03 PM

lgevent

I have started working on 1/72 German WWII armor and want a brush capable of painting freehand camo schemes. I have been working with an Aztec A470, with the fine tip (tan) and using mostly ModelMaster and Vallejo Model Air acrylics, which I cannot get fine enough (have tried thinning, turning the pressure up/down, changing paint brands, pretty much everything and can’t get the darn thing to work).

By the way, I was looking at a Paasche VL with all 3 needles on sale at a local hobby shop. Is it any good? I have read some of the posts regarding this brush but they don’t seem to answer my question.

Paasche VL is an older design and not fit for fine lines. Try Harder & Steenbeck. The Evolution will allow you to do what you want. The 2-in-1 comes with a 0.15 mm nozzle for fine line and a0.4 mm nozzle for general work. You will not need the later unless you start doing larger scale models. Chicago Airbrush has a 10% off deal until 11/14.

I have a H&S Evolution Silverline Solo. The airbrush spells quality and is easy to clean and allows you to build up skill quickly.

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by STJohnson on Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:23 AM

Well you have allot to choose from. If your going with a smaller nozzle/needle??  you are probably looking at a double action with a gravity cup or a side feed cup.

The  Badger "Velocity" airbrush. Its .21 nozzle/needle will get you where you want to go. Its also easy to clean  and parts are readily available.

They cost around $100. Check out "Merri artist.com" or "Chicago airbrush supply"

Airbrushes with .2 or smaller n/n can be a little "fussy"  to get to spray correctly. So you may want to go with a .3 ish n/n. You might find this size a bit more friendly to use and clean and still be able to get a fine line.

The Badger "rage" with its .33 might be the ticket

 

Just my 2 cents worth

Good luck

 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:58 AM

Its not just the capacity of the airbrush that makes those really really fine lines, but the skills of the user! Skills in operating the airbrush as well as paint mixture and preparation. I've seen guys who have spent hundreds of dollars for airbrushes that are used/were used in touching up photograph negatives (very old school) who couldn't get a line, let alone a straight line any narrower than they could with an inexpensive airbrush.

Its not all in the airbrush...but also in the users technique too.

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:17 PM

I'd emphasize the paint mixing and preparation part, as Hawkeye alluded to, more than anything else.  I've got an Aztek 7778 kit and a Grex Tritium.  The Grex cost three times what the Aztek did, but won't paint any finer a line with certain paints, and unfortunately your paints of choice are the ones that you're going to have the hardest times painting fine lines with no matter what airbrush you use.

A fine line requires that you be very close to your subject (all airbrushes fire paint in a cone... when someone makes one that fires paint like a laser, they'll corner the airbrush market!), which usually mandates lower pressures and very thin paints.  You can up the pressure, but you'll sacrifice control and risk overspray.  Acrylic paints, for the most part, aren't as easy to thin and get results compared to enamels or varnishes.  Tip dry is a constant threat, causing spattering and the loss of your fine line.

Do a search both here and at other sites (Large Scale Planes, Hyperscale, etc.) for Vallejo Model Air and you'll get fairly consistent reports that it's hard to thin for fine line painting, but goes on great for base coats or painting with masks.  Several here have stated Future at 1-1 makes a good thinner for VMA.  The problem many point to is that Model Master and Vallejo are water based paints.  Alcohol based acrylics (Tamiya and Mr Color Aqueous) have a reputation for thinning down with alcohol much better than Vallejo and MM.  

I recently tried some Gunze Mr Color through the Grex, and it's an utter dream to spray.  No standing by with a wet cue-tip every 30 seconds to clear tip dry, no spiders, nothing.  Thin it down to nearly nothing and you'll spray nearly nothing in a perfect coat.  After that I sprayed some through the tan tip on the 7778, and got close to the same results.  The Grex is still massively superior for mottled cammo, though, due to the much longer trigger throw and (for me) ergonomics and aim.

I'm suspicious of saying 'airbrush technique' has much influence on getting a fine line, as technique tends to bring up a mental image of physical skill in handling.  This would dictate how well you can paint that fine line to get the effect you want, but getting that line in the first place out of the airbrush is mostly an exercise in chemistry.  Your aztek will paint a very fine line with the tan tip, but if you want to do it easily you're going to have to smell up the place with enamels or varnishes.

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by brickshooter on Wednesday, November 10, 2010 5:06 PM

I use a Badger Sotar

Pros-

The  .19mm needle and 3/4 spray pattern was designed specifically for fine detailed work rather than be a jack-of-all-traits.

The small cup allows you to look over the cup and aim, yet because it's a gravity cup, is easier to clean.

The short distance from the nozzle to trigger finger allows you to hold it like holding a pencil near the tip for better control.

The numeric needle stopper allows you to replicate the exact thin lines on other surfaces at a later time since you can remember how thin the lines were by number.

$115 which includes shipping.

 

Cons -

Slippery trigger now, that the rubber pads are no longer available. 

Could be testy with MM acrylics.  

No cup cover.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Lund, Sweden
Posted by denstore on Friday, November 12, 2010 6:30 AM

Some months ago, there was a discussion on fine lines, and I made this little doodling to illustrate what could be done. Sadly enough, the thread was removed, but anyway, here´s what I did in about a couple of minutes of preparation, and with uncut Vallejo Air. As can be seen, it also contains some spidering, that came before I got the pressure down, spattering and uneven thickness of the lines, until I had it dialed in. And the general shakiness is because I'm a not a very good airbrusher. :)

http://www.home.no/carius/quicktest.jpg

Without a question, the airbrush is important. Both for the end result, and the way to get there. Skill? In my opinion thin lines has very little to do with skill. It's something that could be learned in minutes. Knowledge has more to do with it. Most beginners think that they should be able to make thin lines at inches away from the canvas. It's just not going to happen.Thinning of paint? Sure it's important, but getting solid lines, for things like preshades must be opaque enough, or you will have to go over it in several passes. For thin lines, that practice isn't going to help you. So, the best solution is to get the right equipment, and practice. What is the right equipment? Something that has the capability to spray at low pressure, i.e. gravity fed, is easy controlable, and fits your hand. The smallest possible line will depend on the size of the nozzle, and the controlability of the paintflow will depend on the taper of the needle and the design of the trigger. This might be cheap or expensive, depending on what you find to be comfortable, but there's no absolute correlation between pricey and capable. One of my Rich airbrushes is the best I have for doing preshades. It costed me about $70. The MP-200C I used for the illustration costed $550. The difference is that the MP is a lot smoother to work with, and it's less demanding when it comes to thinning ratios. If it's worth it probably depends on how you value your time.

Better an airbrush in the hand, than ten in the car....Stick out tongue

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