Using acrilyc and enamel at the same time?

Thank you so much for every answer.

Hi Dan,

I'm not going to say that what you're doing is wrong, but putting a coat of clear (or anything) on top shouldn't affect how the underlying paint adheres to the surface beneath.

If there is an adhesion problem, simply adding a coat on top shouldn't change that  unless the underlying coat is too thin to start with.

However, it may help with metallic finishes because the metallic particles, particularly on the outer layer of the paint can often have a tenuous grip on the panit substrate (Tamiya acrylic metallics in particular) and can easily be pulled off with tape. Adding a layer of clear in these circumstances can add a homogenous skin over these "loose" particles and can aid in reducing the incidence of tape pulling off the outer layer of metallic particles. Downside is that adding a clear layer on a metallic finish may alter its appearance.

Generally speaking, adequate surface preparation (ie. cleaning) before painting and making sure that the paint is fully cured (as opposed to simply "dry") before masking should reduce the incidence of masking tape lifting the underlying paint.

I have had succes with putting on the first coat (the lighter color) follow with a coat of clear flat or matte (either airbrush, or from a can) allow to dry overnight, then tape for camo and follow up with the darker coat of camo.  I learned early on if you fail to seal the first coat the tape might lift the paint.

 Dan

I've stuck to the old adage about painting a house,  oilbase over waterbase you will be fine,  waterbase over oilbase will peel real fast! 

Dan, I have a question regarding your comments.

You say to put on a coat of matte or gloss before masking to camo.

Do you mean to put on the first camo colour and then the flat coat before you put on the next camo colur or did you mean toput on the flat coat before any camo?

Regards  - rookie 104

stcat

I've always followed the A-E-L rule.  The higher letter in the alphabet can go over the next, but never in reverse.  Acrylics can go on Enamels which can go on Lacquers. 

It's a rule of thumb that works for me.  I've had Acrylics get burned by Enamel paints, which in turn have been totally destroyed by Lacquers. (Except for Dullcote/Glosscote, which are designed to go over Enamel).

 

The thing that complicates the problem is that there are now acrylic enamels and acrylic lacquers :-(    So we have five types of paint to worry about when it comes to compatibility.  I know am not sure I really know the definition of an enamel or lacquer.  Problem is, it seems, like folks are now mixing two different definitions of paint- one is the type of material used in the paint, and the second is the action of how the paint hardens.

I've always followed the A-E-L rule.  The higher letter in the alphabet can go over the next, but never in reverse.  Acrylics can go on Enamels which can go on Lacquers. 

It's a rule of thumb that works for me.  I've had Acrylics get burned by Enamel paints, which in turn have been totally destroyed by Lacquers. (Except for Dullcote/Glosscote, which are designed to go over Enamel).

I concur with the enamel then acrylic for detailing.  However, I have read plenty of reviews and tips that say you can go either way, but of you start with acrylics, future coat it before you go after it with enamel weathering.  Another thing I've found in my limited experience as a modeler is that there seems to tried and true ways for every handful of modelers.  One tip I've found invaluable is using old or inexpensive models for testing.  Swap meets are a great way of finding inexpensive models.  Also, use your discount coupons found regularly at leading Hobby stoes to pick up models and supplies inexpensively.

Dan

I usually do it the opposite.  I use enamels for the base coat and detailing a bit, then I do weathering and such with acrylic because it's easier to drybrush and do washes with.  And it's a whole lot easier to remove if you make a mistake.  Once the Enamel coats are dry, they are proof against acrylic thinners.  However, I have had Enamel thinner eat acrylic for lunch.  Another thing is that as was mentioned, Model Masters has a LOT more colors.  And they also do have acrylic paints in addition to the enamels.  So if you ever need to mix the two types but keep the color consistent, then stick to Model Master for both.  I find weathering looks better when I use a mix of the same color as the enamel base in acrylic model master., darkening or lightening it to a slightly different shade.

As for decals, I use microscale micro sol and micro set.  Using these, it's possible to get really good decal adhesion with no silvering even on flat colors.  And afterwards, put on a coat of Testors DullCote and it looks great.

Dan the Man

I had a similar question and my original thoughts were confirmed.  It is ok to use both.  first use acrylic, then enamel on top after at least 24 hours of drying time. Also, try to have the enamel be the darker color for when you are doing camo you should start with the light color and follow with the dark. I've never mixed the two together to try to get a color and probably wouldn't recommend it.

Another rule of thumb, never put flat on gloss, but it is ok to put gloss over flat.

Lastly, be sure to put on a coat of matte or flat coat before you begin to mask for camo.  Otherwise, the paint from the first color might lift off when you remove the mask.

Dan

Manstein's revenge

I just de-gaussed...

I de-gaussed, therefore I am....

I just de-gaussed...

Nope, what does a graphic designer with 1 year of chem-tech count as?

The length of time probably varies by brand, but "dry to touch" isn't the same as "done off-gassing". (I suppose if you lay acrylic over acrylic it doesn't make much difference as the chemistry is the same.) And the more humidity, of course, the longer needed to finish off-gassing. If I'm dealing with vinyl graphics over a freshly-painted wall, even latex (ie water cleanup) paint needs to be left for 2 weeks before vinyl applications.

I've had enamels react badly to acrylics weeks after the base acrylic was applied...any chemists in here? 

I had a similar question and my original thoughts were confirmed.  It is ok to use both.  first use acrylic, then enamel on top after at least 24 hours of drying time. Also, try to have the enamel be the darker color for when you are doing camo you should start with the light color and follow with the dark. I've never mixed the two together to try to get a color and probably wouldn't recommend it.

Another rule of thumb, never put flat on gloss, but it is ok to put gloss over flat.

Lastly, be sure to put on a coat of matte or flat coat before you begin to mask for camo.  Otherwise, the paint from the first color might lift off when you remove the mask.

Dan