gloss coat (predecaling, prepanelwash)

Hey mate,

Just to be clear (no pun intended) - are you saying that you painted with Gunze and want to overcoat with Testors Gloss Lacquer?

OR: have you already overcoated with Gunze Mr Color Lacquer and intend on doing another coat with Testors?

I just used the Testors Gloss Lacquer for the first time on a recent project.  I painted with Gunze.  Long story short, i didn't hold the lacquer far enough away when spraying which resulted in the too much lacquer which resulted in the lacquer lifting the paint.

Net result - i had to repaint large portions of my camo scheme.

Once i did this, i then did 3 layers of Gunze clear gloss, then applied the testors clear lacquer - no paint lifting this time.

Also, the reason i used the Testors Clear Lacquer is because i can never seem to get clear gloss to work properly for me (have tried both Gunze and Tamiya acrylic).  However, the Testors Clear Lacquer is fantastic - highly recommend provided you protect the acrylic paint first with a few coats of acrylic gloss.

As for the rest of your steps - they all sound correct.  I plan on doing decals and panel washes, then Testors Clear Lacquer again, then Testors Dullcoat, then pastels, then Dullcoat again.

One thing i haven't determined is - what to wash the panel lines with?

Do you know if enamel paint thinner will eat into the Testor Clear Lacquer?

Hope this has helped.

cml

Hey CML,

Sorry for not being so "clear".  Here's what's on the plane at this point:

1. Gunze Mr Surfacer 1200 (lacquer) airbrushed as a prim coat.

Then. . .

2. Gunze Mr Color (lacquer) airbrushed as the color coat.

I would like to airbrush the Testors gloss lacquer over the Gunze lacquer color coat before I decal and wash the panel lines.  I'm just not sure if the two manufacturers are compatible. 

I now have a question for you.  You mentioned above that you had paint lifting as a result of using the Testor's Clear gloss lacquer.  Was the Gunze that lifted lacquer, enamel, or acrylic ? 

Really appreciate your imput

Regards,

Sienna

We had a heated thread on a related subject a while back. The story is that Gunze Mr. Hobby paints should be treated like lacquers. If you don't use lacquer thinner on them, you should (as Gunze recommends.) I and many others think Tamiya also works better with lacquer thinner, but it's more acrylic thinner friendly. These are both acrylic paints in theory but they are solvent, not water based. Anyway, I would recommend putting on a coat of Future to protect the Gunze paints. (If you want Future to be very gloss hand brush it on: no brush strokes if you use a light hand, and it's startlingly bright. An airbrush gives you a satin finish. If you use that, get some extremely fine sanding sticks and (like 2400 or higher) and buff the area around your decals. You'll fell it get really smooth. Sort of thing people do to make Alclad finishes work right. As for panel washes, I think lots of things would work. If you've got your model covered in lacquer then an acrylic wash mixed with acrylic thinner would work fine. Reverse the type of paint in the wash from the type of covering: enamel or oil washes over acrylic (Future is acrylic of course); acrylic wash over gloss enamel or lacquer. The reasoning is that different types of paints and solvents don't stick to each other readily. If they did you'd color your panel lines and rest of the wing too.

Eric

sienna

I would like to airbrush the Testors gloss lacquer over the Gunze lacquer color coat before I decal and wash the panel lines.  I'm just not sure if the two manufacturers are compatible. 

Hi Sienna,

You shouldn't have any problems airbrushing Testors clear gloss lacquer over Gunze Mr Color lacquers. I would suggest applying a couple of light mist coats first (and allow to dry) to seal the base coat before applying a wet coat of the clear gloss.

On another note, I think the issue with any gloss coating, whether it be clear or solid, acrylic, enamel or lacquer, is that it has to be applied sufficiently "wet" to form a continuous ,smooth gloss film. The trick is to know that you have to apply a relaitively heavy wet coat, but also to know when to stop before it begins to run. Perhaps this is why you had problems with Future and CML had problems with the respective Tamiya and Gunze clears.

Howdy,

Sienna - the Gunze i used was Gunze Sangyo Aqueous Hobby Color - which as i understand, is water based and a different formula to that of Gunze Mr Hobby Color (which, as Eric pointed out, should be treated like a lacquer).

I think this is why i had the trouble with Testors Lacquer.

Phil_H - thanks for the tips about the clear coats - i'll have to keep giving Tamiya and Gunze a try until i figure out how to lay down a nice smooth surface.

Regards,

Chris.

cml

i'll have to keep giving Tamiya and Gunze a try until i figure out how to lay down a nice smooth surface.

Hi Chris,

One of the tricks I learned fairly early on when airbrushing gloss paints is to work against a fairly bright light, holding the subject at an angle to the light so you can see the level of sheen and the behaviour of the paint droplets as they hit the surface. It's hard to describe what to look for, but when you do it, you'll see what I mean.

If you're open to a slightly pricier option, you may want to try Alclad's Clear Base. Stuff goes on great and is super smooth. 

One trick I've (finally) found for getting the most out of Future, Testors gloss lacquer, etc, is spraying with a relatively large nozzle. I had nothing but nightmares trying to do clear coats with my HP-C Plus and .3mm nozzle/needle, and not much better with the .35mm combo in my Eclipse HP-CS, but when I dropped in the .5mm combo, wow, what a difference!

Phil Foley, the founder and guru of the fine UK site Promodeller (http://www.promodeller.com), did a five hour video build (their specialty - costs $5 a month for access but it's a steal in my eyes) on two metallic models. He did a P47 in Alclad and it worked great if you didn't mind Alclad's price and fumes and the time it takes to get that perfect base coat. He also did a P-51 in Vallejo acrylics and when he put Future on it there was cracking all over the wings. He had to switch to the Citadel brand of acrylics which is usually used by fantasy modelers and that worked well. I tried Polly Scale flat aluminum on an Oscar and had some cracking on the control surfaces after applying Future. That was a first. Not sure that Foley ever found out what was wrong at his shop. So Future can, I guess, cause trouble. Were you using a metallic paint by chance - they do have different pigments. 

Foley is also the person who showed the difference between spraying and painting Future. There's no comparison. I've tried it several times and Foley's right. If you brush it on manually - Future is "self-leveling" so there no brush strokes - the gloss is much brighter. (If you've ever dipped a cockpit into Future you've seen what I mean.) So if that's what you want, try it. As noted, airbrushing Future gives a satin finish - that's not bad but it's different. And if you just want to use it for a decal, you can give just the right area a brush and after laying the decals cover it with anything or nothing.

Eric