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Future (Klear) and pigment suspension?

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Future (Klear) and pigment suspension?
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 5:58 AM

Can't say I've mastered airbrushing yet - it's a skill. But I'm getting there. One of the biggest problems I was having was having the brush nozzle clog partially or totally especially when doing detail and fine coats. It was quite a help when someone advised using lacquer thinner with Tamiya paints - it's a great combination. (Gunze Mr. Hobby might be better or at least as good, but also with lacquer.)

I'm not a chemist but it's pretty obvious that Tamiya and Gunze are suspended in a pretty potent witches' brew: you can smell it. (Tamiya warns that their paint is flammable.) I am not suggesting for a minute that people shouldn't use these products - I've got quite a collection myself. That said, I've been on the look-out for a water based acrylic that you could use without a mask (I know you should anyway, but I'd forget to put on shoes if I wasn't married.) I don't avoid lacquer regardless - it's a killer airbrush cleaner. I did something really dumb - not sure what - and really clogged my Harder Steenbeck airbrush. Took the whole thing, with the tip seperate, and put in my ultrasonic cleaner with some cut lacquer thinner. Two three minute cycles and it was clean as a whistle. Should note I use Tamiya and Gunze lacquer thinner on paints - bulk stuff for cleaning.

So I've bought Vallejo and Polly Scale Acrylics (the railroad variety.) Also have LifeColor but haven't really given them a try-out. (Although I certainly failed to mottle an Oscar with them.) A post on this forum or Armorama said that water based acrylics (Polly Scale has ethers but it isn't as tough as Tamiya) allowed pigments to sink to the bottom of the color cup and thus clog the tip. This, of course, would take a little time - which describes slow detailing. The solution was a little Future in the paint to help keep the pigments suspended and thin the stuff with water cut with Liquitex flow aid. I tried it on Pollyscale and it helped a lot. I certainly didn't mind the slightly satin finish (you don't use much) because I prefer satin. (I'm really not sure how many models should have a really "flat" finish.) Anyway it did work very nicely with Polly Scale. I was using Vallejo Model Air to complete a camo scheme (wonderful colors) and forgot to use Clear and you could see the paint slightly clogging around the needle. Had a paint brush with acrylic thinner on it and that did a good job of keeping it clean.

This could be baloney and maybe I just had some good nights.. On the other hand, it may be that something like Future (or acrylic clear perhaps) would help suspend the pigments. And Liquitex flow aid is designed to slow the drying of acrylics. Maybe this is helpful. Or not. Wiser heads have opinion?

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 6:06 AM

Airbrush performance is a lot of trial and error. Make a log of adjustments and make only one at a time as to scientifically note the results.

Others agree that the manufactures thinner is best for airbrushing and the bulk variety is better for cleaning.

Also it has been brought up some batches of paint and just plain duds. If all else fails try a different jar or manufacture for certain colors.

I am a 'rattle can' modeler yet have sprayed a few 1/1 scale vehicles so the basic principles apply.

Good luck as it too can be a factor!

Jason

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: DFW, Texas
Posted by NervousEnergy on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:46 AM

Flow-aid tends to help some with clogging, but in my experience it doesn't do much to increase drying time and therefor tip dry.  You need a retarder for that.  Liquitex makes a retarder, but at that point you're putting several drops of different stuff in your paint every time you fill the cup, and that gets to be a pain (drop of flow-aid water, drop of retarder, drop of future for the acrylic resins, etc.)  I want to paint, not be a chemist.  Unfortunately that seems to be a requirement these days.

Liquitex airbrush medium contains all three: flow-aid, retarder, and clear acrylic carrier to help with suspension and adhesion.  After trying it I've not used the straight flow-aid or retarder.  I haven't tried thinning with future yet, as the medium works so well, but it would definitely be cheaper. 

I don't personally see the point in using lacquer thinner or any other smelly stuff.  If I'm going to fire up the fans, open the window, don the darth vader mask, etc., then I'm going to paint with lacquer.  No problems with tip dry, pebbling, clogging, pigment settling, etc... just a beautiful finish.  For me, the only reason to continue to try and perfect acrylic finishing and all the chemistry experimentation that goes with it is that I can fire up the airbrush and paint away without hearing the Earth (or my wife) scream.  ;-)   

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:09 AM

EBergerud

I did something really dumb - not sure what - and really clogged my Harder Steenbeck airbrush. Took the whole thing, with the tip seperate, and put in my ultrasonic cleaner with some cut lacquer thinner. Two three minute cycles and it was clean as a whistle. 

Just a head's up that dunking the main body of the airbrush in an ultrasonic cleaner can have some really bad consequences. 

A few weeks back I did something similar trying to get some tough crud out of the bottom of my Iwata HP-C Plus' color cup. Disassembled it and submerged everything from the color cup forward in the ultrasonic cleaner. Came back to find that, with the needle removed, it had kicked an acrylic/enamel slurry back up the needle channel and into the trigger mechanism area. 

This is actually why I bought the Eclipse HP-CS. I've got the HP-C+ functional again, but there's still something awry with the trigger mechanism, and when I release it it seems to hang before gradually shutting off the airflow. Pretty sure there's paint clogged down there, and I need to send it in to let Iwata clean it up good, but I also need it for some detail work, so I've been hesitating. 

Anyway, yeah, be careful putting a disassembled airbrush body into the ultrasonic...

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 6:36 PM

Wonder what you had in there. I took out the needle and all of the paint build-up simply went into the solvent and the thing came out clean as a whistle. It might be bad for rings, but they're cheap and I have a packet of spares. (Supposedly a good airbrush shouldn't be a problem in that regard, but who knows.) At bare minimum, the ultrasonic is tops for cleaning out the nozzel, tip and needle. I've found that it's hard to find the right device to clean a nozzle with. Thin metal devices will clear a whole but not necessarily really get at the stuff that is clinging to the sides. A tooth pick or even a medical cotton swab can leave a little bit of itself behind - I've had clogging from cleaning. Should try a dental tool maybe.

It has passed my mind that enamel paints might actually clean better than acrylics. You sure wouldn't have the stuff drying on your tip after two minutes. Of course I've sunk maybe $200 into acrylics.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

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