I won't be using Model Master acrylics again.

stikpusher

Rather than having to wait a week or so after running out and ordering the replacement online and awaiting delivery. This also gives me a good excuse to visit and browse for anything else that suits my fancy...

I can't argue with that.  Wild Bill's Hobby Shop in Irving, TX is an absolute wonder to walk around in... an old school shop with about 3X the stock stuffed into it then they should realistically (or safely) have.  Plastic modeling, railroad stuff, RC, all stuffed to 8' high in isles with maybe 40" of walking room.  I can disappear there for hours.  He carries a fair selection of Tamiya and Alclad II products along with the normal MM, and even a full shelf of Floquil (love Reefer White and Grimey Black).  I'll always buy Alclad there since the price is only a small bit higher than online, and the occasional Tamiya since I consider Tamiya and Mr Color to be perfectly equivalent... they both spray flawlessly with Mr Leveling Thinner.  He's got great selections of albion tubing and strip/sheet syrene in every configuration imaginable as well, which is really convenient.

Can't buy his kits, though.  I'd pay a 10 or maybe even 20% premium over online to support the shop, but not the 50-100% premium he asks for.  Just can't afford that at 1/32 scale, and I've got a good modeling budget.  Plus he doesn't carry any Gunze products, and I'm dependent on the incredible color range and sprayability of Mr Color, plus the surfacers and dissolved putty.

2 or the 3 LHS which I shopped at for all my paint needs for the last 10 years carried the Aqueous line until about 3 years ago or so. Since then one shop replaced it with the Mr Color line telling me that they could no longer obtain the Aqueous paints due to a labeling issue just like the Tamiya one encountered here in the US last year, and the other shop closed its doors a few months ago without replacing Gunze Aqueous. I am not keen on buying paints online as I do have several shops in the area where I can pop in after a short drive when I need a particular paint color. Rather than having to wait a week or so after running out and ordering the replacement online and awaiting delivery. This also gives me a good excuse to visit and browse for anything else that suits my fancy...

NervousEnergy

I don't really get the whole 'availability' thing with Gunze... sure they're not being wholesale imported for 'off the shelf' sales

Actually, they are imported to the US - Dragon USA are the distributors for GSI Creos (Gunze Sangyo) products. I suspect that it's simply that not many hobby shops carry them. If you look at Dragon USA's site, you will see the entire range of Mr Color paints listed.

stikpusher

Side note question- for those who have used lacquer thinner with MM Acrylics, do you thin the MM Acrylics strictly with the lacquer thinner or a mix of MM Thinner/Lacquer Thinner?

stikpusher

Yes, I do miss the Gunze Aqueous paints big-time. My best acrylic airbrushing work was with those paints. Excellent paints an a superb selection of colors. There was no point in going to the Mr Color line for me as those are far less hand brush friendly than enamels or acrylics once I tried them out. Yes they airbrush great, but only work with their thinner or lacquer thinner. Neither option is very cost effective. The conspiracy theorist in me says it was Testors who put the bug in someone's ear to start the labeling issue that saw the Gunze Aqueous paint line's import stopped...

I don't really get the whole 'availability' thing with Gunze... sure they're not being wholesale imported for 'off the shelf' sales, but you can easily buy them at superior prices from a variety of online hobby stores.  Hobbywave is my favorite due to very cheap shipping when you buy in bulk ($15 flat rate shipping for a box of up to 50 bottles of paint) plus excellent stock levels, but SprueBro, MegaHobby, a billion eBay stores, all carry it.  As I understand it, the issue with Aqueous was that Gunze discontinued most of the line to remove duplication with Mr Color.

I've also got to take gentle exception to the 'cost effective' statement.  You can use any lacquer thinner with it, and the Klean Strip stuff at Home Depot costs $7 for a 32 oz can.  That's enough to paint the walls of my model room with Mr Color.   I use the Home Depot stuff for airbrush cleaning, but  prefer Mr Leveling Thinner due to the inclusion of a retarder.  It's a bit pricier, but at $14 for 400 ml you can paint a large 1/32 scale aircraft using multiple different coats (Mr Surfacer plus various color coats) for a little over $1 for the thinner.

Bummer about the brush painting, though... I didn't know that.  I've got a large Mr Color collection at this point but it's only for ABing.  The various Vallejo Model Air acrylics, floquil & MM enamels I've got are plenty for brush painting.  Odd... I got better results brush painting Vallejo Model Air than I did airbrushing it.

Yes, I do miss the Gunze Aqueous paints big-time. My best acrylic airbrushing work was with those paints. Excellent paints an a superb selection of colors. There was no point in going to the Mr Color line for me as those are far less hand brush friendly than enamels or acrylics once I tried them out. Yes they airbrush great, but only work with their thinner or lacquer thinner. Neither option is very cost effective. The conspiracy theorist in me says it was Testors who put the bug in someone's ear to start the labeling issue that saw the Gunze Aqueous paint line's import stopped...

Side note question- for those who have used lacquer thinner with MM Acrylics, do you thin the MM Acrylics strictly with the lacquer thinner or a mix of MM Thinner/Lacquer Thinner?

May be necromancy but it's still relevant.  I've only grown more convinced of the superiority of Gunze products followed closely by Tamiya.  Gunze Mr Leveling Thinner is the holy grail of airbrushing.  I still use my initial collection of Vallejo for brushing, but only Mr Color and Tamiya paints (thinned with the aforementioned MrLT) go in the airbrush.  

My fun and satisfaction level with painting has gone through the roof since I've gone this way.  Yes, wearing the respirator and carefully venting my modeling room after a paint session so the smell doesn't get in the rest of the house is a pain, but the paint behaves the same way, every time.  No more acylic alchemy that may work one day and not the next, depending on paint temperment, weather, and the astrological sign in ascendency.  Just perfect, smooth coats, dailed down to a pencil width if I want, and I've forgotten what tip dry is like.

i primed with mr.surfacer 1000 or 1200 and never had it lift. thinned with testors thinner.

Interesting info on the lacquer thinner/acrylics guys. I had some issues with Polly Scale Italian Camo Yellow on my last airbrushing session. Not enough bite in it using the Testors Universal Thinner. I may have to try the Lacquer Thinner on my next effort there.

doogsATX...just a point of reference I used Mr. Leveling thinnner with them.  Very very little tip dry and very nice thin coats that laid down perfect.

Hercmech

OMCUSNR

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

Well I hate to be the Debbie downer, but unless the smell is an issue I think acrylics thin beautifuly with laquer thinners.

I had a happy mistake on my last build with MM acrylics. I could not get them to thin and out of frustration, I poured some laquer thinner in to clean the AB.

Low and behold it thinned wonderfuly, and I sprayed my whole Stuka in that mix. Came out great I think

OMCUSNR

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

Well I hate to be the Debbie downer, but unless the smell is an issue I think acrylics thin beautifuly with laquer thinners.

I had a happy mistake on my last build with MM acrylics. I could not get them to thin and out of frustration, I poured some laquer thinner in to clean the AB.

Low and behold it thinned wonderfuly, and I sprayed my whole Stuka in that mix. Came out great I think

I've had good luck with Acryl over a good prime - either Tamiya or Testors - with no lifting. With no primer, I have had some lifting issues. I still like them for their color selection.

I hate MM Acryl.  I've pretty much sworn them off.  I always have issues with the paint lifting up with masking tape.

But...I'm working on a build right now that has a very unique paint scheme and MM Acryl had most of the colors straight out of the bottle.  So I primed the model with Tamiya Fine Surface primer and thinned the MM Acryl with lacquer thinner from Home Depot and it is sticking to the model really well.  The lacquer thinner makes it hot enough to bite into the primer.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still hate MM Acryl...but this model is turning out great.

MM is only known for their enamels. MM acrylics need a good prime to set correctly. trust me, i know. I've tested primed vs un-primed. tamiya masking tape it will rip it up all day without a prime.

I'm switching from MM acylics to Tamiya. I just ordered $200 worth of Tamiya. I have had fantastic luck with the Tamiya acylics. I use the Tamiya acylic thinner too. It's a little more expensive but worth it to me if I have spent hundreds of hours on a model I want it to look nice.

Will

montague

There is nothing wrong with model master paints. If there was they wouldn't sell so much. There must be a user cause that you haven't figured out. Go through the full process and see where you might go wrong in what you are doing. Very well may be a thinner issue. Don't blame the tools.

I disagree overall.There certainly seem to be quality control issues over the past few years as the same paints have inconsistancies. Either thicker or thinner just in the bottle after I have stirred them in the exact same manner that I have been using for years. They sell so well because often they are the only brand offered for sale at stores. They have bought up their old competition of Pactra, Floquil, and Polly S and then raised the prices on those lines before discontinuing those military color lines.

Ummmm-

I don't think the laquer thinner is a good idea with acylic paints.  Use some denatured alcohol (marine stove fuel) to thin with.

I think I had it thinned properly but was spraying in poor light and put on too many thin coats which obscured my pre-shading.  Until then, I was very happy with the results and loved the effect.  A valuable lesson learned.  I will try the Testor's thinner and maybe even a dab of laquer thinner in an obscure spot.  Otherwise, I guess I'll sand it back with a fine grit and touch up later.  This happened on the light blue bottom of an Fi 103, so I still have the topside to do.

There is nothing wrong with model master paints. If there was they wouldn't sell so much. There must be a user cause that you haven't figured out. Go through the full process and see where you might go wrong in what you are doing. Very well may be a thinner issue. Don't blame the tools.

What are you thinning them with?  I had the same problem until I was informed that thinning the acrylic with water was not a good thing.  I had to dig a little deeper in my pockets and buy acrylic thinner.  I haven't had a problem with them since.

Testors makes an acrylic cleaner that should strip it right off.

Medea makes a product labeled as Airbrush Cleaner,,,,I use it after each session

but, instructions are included for cleaning a clogged airbrush,,,,,maybe it will work as a paint stripper, if put on and left for a long while?

I saw a post here from 2004 where the author wrote that they were able to remove cured Tamiya acrylic from a model with Windex.  Does anyone know if there is a way to remove cured MM acrylic?  I got carried away spraying my first kit in 40 years and applied it a bit thick, obscuring my pre-shading.

Killjoy

Good.....God!  Feb 2011 to June 2012.  That's got to be close to a thread resurection record!

Nah, not even close - I've seen threads dredged up from 2006...

Good.....God!  Feb 2011 to June 2012.  That's got to be close to a thread resurection record!

I had forgotten all about posting to this topic, had to re-read the whole thing!

Chris

    Never really cared for the MM acrylic line; very satisfied with their enamel though. I typically use MM enamel as a "base" coat so tho speak and use Tamiya acrylics for weathering etc. although iI like the color quality of the Tamiya for brush painting smaller items.I sometimes use the X-20 thinner but also have had good results with 90% alcohol and H2O in a 3:1 ratio.

My gripe is that it won't mix in the bottle, even with a battery operated mixer. The primer gray is okay, but the colored paint just won't mix. I'm beginning to appreciate enamels again.

gawga, that is a total bummer about the MM paint.  sorry to hear that.  i have had terrible luck with their acrylics so i feel your pain.

on a scrap piece of plastic that has the same MM paint can you try spraying a thin coat of lacquer primer?  it might bite right thru the acrylic and into the plastic.  but test it first to make sure it doesn't create some kind of flawed surface and that it cant be chipped away.  i did this once when i had problems with the MM acrylics on a plane.  then try the tamiya with their thinner on that same scrap piece and see if it recovers the situation.

good luck!

andy