Primer!

Nice to hear that you enjoyed the tattoo Laurie, you must have been there at the height of our summer, " a crisp night and a slight breeze", Im really surprised it was'nt raining. I remember going to see it when I was just a wee boy and unfortunately I was very ill and spent half of the show behind one of the big statues outside the castle......! The lone piper is quite a nostalgic moment.I do remember the RAF motor cycle team and turning to my dad and saying " thats what I want to do when I'm bigger "

I'm originally from Edinburgh, we have only stayed through in West Lothian for nearly for four years, wanted to get away from the hustle and bustle of the city and be a wee bit closer to work. and I'm a Crawford and I'm sure that we are allowed to wear the Stewart tartan as we are both associated to both clans...I think.

You sure got first prize living in Jersey, the hottest place in Britain.

All the best

Darren

That is a pleasure Darren.

See you are situated near Edinburgh. One of my favourite Cities. One of the finest nights of my life at the Edinburgh Tattoo. Crisp night, slight breeze up on the rear seat with my family. The icing on the cake the final  scene the Piper on top of the Castle Battlements just magic. Maternal Grandfather came from the Shetlands, Paternal Great Grandfather from Glasgow & I am a Stewart. I got the prize to live in Jersey (British Isles of course).

Laurie

Laurie,

I will let you know how the vallejo primer goes and will be sure to browse the links that you have provided, hopefully the airbrush will be here next week and if all is well its as easy as you have described.

But in all fairness this hobby, I find , is that is relaxing after working long hours all week and being able to escape and concentrate on something that I really enjoy as you see progressive results through your own enjoyment. Also being able to use and utilise this forum and get really good advice from other people like yourself who take the time to read and reply to the troubles us newbies have.

There is a million and one mediums out there on the internet market, and in the hobby shops ,and I suppose that its the fun in exploring all these to get a really good looking model.......practice make perfect.

Thanks Laurie you've been a great help.

Just to restate Darren that I have only had experience with Humbrol Primer & as yet I have not used Vallejo Poly Primer. It would be a good idea to try on a spare piece of plastic to make sure it suits you.

But Vallejo Poly Primer is fine & recommended by Vallejo for their Model Air range.

If you go to http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/pdf_web/MA_CC071_rev05.pdf this gives loads of info on Model Air.

Also http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/pdf_web/CC001.pdf which gives question & answer.

Also http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/index.html. This is Vallejo's main web site.

Yes like my experience of single action sure you will fine it a great step forward with a double action brush. Easy once you have got a bit of use. Just to give a bit of advice. First push down on the trigger which starts the air distribution that is that action over just keep it pressed until finished. Then easy just pull back the trigger until you have the amount of paint being released as required. You will read this is complicated but in reality it is simple following the above.

Hope all goes well. Read up about "Klear" as this stuff will improve your modelling & make things a lot easier.

Laurie

Laurie,

You have certainly eased my worries on using abrasives, and having a spare 30 mins at work today I have looked at modelsforsale.com at vallejo model air, I totally agree that you will have consistancy, as I'm currenty using tamiya acrylics, nice paint but I have had a couple of errors when thinning them down.

When I started modelling I did use Humbrol primer as it was recommended to me from the assistant at the hobby shop, but went on to using tamiya not really taking the time to see how they compaired to each other.

Is it ok to use the Vallejo Polyuerathane Primer when using tamiya acrylics, well only until I purchase some of there paint that is. I have also ordered a Iwata revolution AB as I have quite a cheap one that I bought from everythingairbrush.com, it has done a good job for me getting to grips with airbrushing but I think now its time for me to step up to the plate and get a double action AB, want to try and bring the best out in this model, ( well to the best of my abilities anyway ).

I will hopefully start posting some pictures of the progress but I'm sure they will be few and far between, but always good to get feed back, good or bad.

Enjoy your build of the Spitfire.

Darren

Evening Darren

You nearly seem as keen as I am. Only fortunate thing about getting old & when you retire you have plenty of time although even then it seems to run out.

1500 & 2000 grit are so fine Darren all you will do is to slightly disturb the surface & get rid of the shine on the plastic.. It will not affect the panel lines in any way.

What will is a thick primer. Up until now I have used Humbrol enamel primer (no. one in their system) in a single coat. Airbrushed this has given a good smooth finish which holds like glue but is thin & will not affect the panel line identity. Drys in about 4 hours at room temperature. You can use Acrylics over this solvent based primer.

Just after Christmas I tried Plasticote primer & chucked my half finished Hurricane in the dustbin. Would not dry properly & also was a lot thicker than Humbrol.

However you mentioned Vallejo. I have been using Humbrol & Revell enamels but did not enjoy the experience. They were smelly & messy to use & clean up. Then tried Revell Aqua but was not impressed. Then turned to Vallejo Model Air & they are magic & a joy to use. Using an Airbrush the finish is just perfect. They have transformed model making for me even though I only started in October last. Easy to clean up (though get to cleaning the airbush as soon as you have finished as the stuff is rapid drying) no smell. Easy to use as the paint is supplied in dropper bottles already thinned for air brushing which gives consistency. Very economical as you only dispense a few drops. 4 o5 drops will air brush one side of a 1/72 fighter.

So far I have used the Vallejo on Humbrol primer but I now have for the next project Vallejo primer. Your concern about panel lines takes a leap with Vallejo as the paint film is thinner than the Humroll & Revell Enamels.

With Vallejo Model Air I am using air pressure of 22 & airbrushing with a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Two In One double action with a .4mm  needle nozzle.

Now back to my Spitfire which as a very very young man (boy) I saw chasing ME109s across the morning sky over London.

Laurie

Waw,

A lot of interesting opinions, and I'm sure that I will make good use of all of them, the only thing that I'm not sure of i is if you wet and dry sand the large wing area and the fuselage are you still risking losing detail or is the 1500 grit or 2000 grit fine enough not to disturb any of it.

I'm also interested in airbrushing the primer on, its a good point that its at lower pressure and less paint, do you decant from the can into your AB or use primer for an AB like Vallejo, I suppose its a balance of ease of use and quality of finish.

Anyway only to more shifts at work to go, can't wait.

And again folks, I appreciate all your time and advice," THIS IS A GREAT HOBBY "

Darren

It also depends on the primer.  I find that the testors spray primer is really thick, even when well shaken and sat in hot water for a while. 

I do find, that if you can find it, Tamiya Extra Fine Primer is the best you can get.  I swear by it, never had a thinner smoother primer before.

Well, the way I see it, if I'm afraid that I'm going to bury the detail with primer then chances are I'll do the same thing with color so why not go ahead and get it over with?

But seriously, I prime everything. Force of habit from using lacquers and building up many coats. However, it's very seldom you'll hear me complaining that when I removed tape and masking that paint came with it. I do use an airbrush and have a quart of DuPont acrylic lacquer primer that will last a very long time. You can do it with a can, just a matter of getting the right distance from the target and moving at the right speed.

Tony

I would prime every time.

First though wet & dry the large parts wings & fuselage. I use a 2000 or 1500 gauge paper. Gives a nice finish & gives a good flat surface to seams. Forgot do not prime until you have wings fuselage & tail pieces in place & you have flattened seams & filled gaps otherwise you are half wasting your time.

After wet & drying a good idea to rinse in water to get rid of any residue. The surface now has a grip for the primer. Also primer tends to be a little thicker than the paint finish. The gives an overall depth finish you will not get any grinning through & you will need less coats of paint to cover.

After priming this will show up any poor areas which need attention. Priming will also be a benefit when removing masking. Without primer you are more likely to remove paint when removing the masking.Not to forget to lightly wet & dry the primer before applying the finishing coats.

Agree on smaller parts. I do not prime but certainly I do feel as though I have cheated if I have not painted the inside parts. But then that is me a bit pedantic.

Not an expert by any means. Started in October last year & have learnt all the above by short hard experience & it has certainly made a great improvement on my first attempt.

Laurie

You know, I think priming is way overated.  I seldom prime my models, only if I had to do a lot of putty filling seams and sanding, then primer helps to cover it up.  I would certainly never prime interior details such as cockpits.  If you can airbrush those areas, fine, but no primer.  Use a brush for the fiddly details. 

Most of the time, you can't see all of that hard internal work you did in cockpits and inside fuselages, or wheel wells, etc., after you close up the model.  So I paint only the interior stuff that I think will be easy to see when it's finished.

No need to waste your time doing stuff that you or anyone else will never see. 

Example- you'll never see the pilot's feet on the rudder pedals after you're done, so why paint them?

That Tamiya primer is expensive and comes in a small can.  You may benefit from buying a cheap can of primer (or any flat paint really) at your local discount store and practicing a bit on some small objects with some detail to them. Small machine screws or something like that might work so you can see if you are obscuring any of the surface detail of the fine threads.

 You can get a nice finish with a spray can, but it takes a bit of practice and patience. There's a fine line between not enough and too much. With an airbrush this is a lot easier due to the lower air pressure and volume of paint coming out of the thing.

Thanks von gekko

I did notice that when I primed the seats and cockpit area that it was starting to pool in places, I'm using Tamiya Surface Primer and I think I understand now that its not just about covering all in one go, unfortunately I will be working all weekend but come monday morning I will back in the garage trying out this technique, patients is a virtue!!!!

Thankyou for your time and advice it was much appreciated.

Darren

I'm not terribly experienced, but I've learned some basic techniques, at least for using spray cans (I haven't yet graduated to airbrushing).  The most important strategy, for both priming and painting, is that several light coats produce much better results that a single heavy coat.  Here's what I do:

1. Shake the can to ensure proper mixing.
2. Warm the spray can by setting it for 5 minutes in a bowl of warm water.
3. Hold the can about 25-30cm away from the model
4. Begin spraying ahead of the model so that the initial droplets don't hit the model
5. Move across the model surface in an even movement
6. End spraying past the model so the last droplets don't hit the model.

I aim for 20-30% coverage on the first pass, but over a few minutes you'll see the pigment settle and spread, giving more surface coverage by the time it's done spreading and drying.  Wait a couple hours and do another pass.  Continue until you feel like you have complete coverage which shouldn't take more than 3-4 light coats.

When I've used this technique I find I don't lose any appreciable detail that I can see.  The greater danger is trying to get it all covered in one coat.  That seems to cause those details (especially recessed details) to get completely filled by pooling paint/primer and eventually lost.

I'm sure there are plenty of other great strategies out there but this seems to work for me.  Good luck!