H-S Evolution or Badger Patriot - pros/cons...

DoogsATX

Obviously, the Badger is cheaper. But other than that, anybody have any direct experience with the two? 

It's not, "cheaper" it is less expensive.

Marine Sniper

 

DoogsATX:

 

Obviously, the Badger is cheaper. But other than that, anybody have any direct experience with the two? 

 

 

It's not, "cheaper" it is less expensive.

Yes. Wasn't meant to imply lower quality. But since my range can accomodate either, I'm looking more for handling characteristics than "find the lowest MSRP".

I can only speak to the Patriot. I got one at AMPSEast last fall.

Up to that point, I was using a Badger 150, so I didn't really completely change horses, but I did really want a gravity fed airbrush.

I didn't get a chance to really use the Patrior much until about a month and a half ago. I was surprised that it seemed to take a bit of figuring out - mostly paint ratios and just getting the 'feel' of it. However, since I've done that, I've got to say I am extremely pleased. As you point out, it is extremely easy to clean so I can switch colors pretty rapidly. I like that if I run low on paint I can put a drop or two in the cup, add a bit of thinner and I am good to go. And, as I get more proficient with it, I am finding that it can do whatever I want it to (I am the limiting factor, not the brush).

I don't know if there is anything specific you want answered, but I hope this provides you a good overview of the Patriot.

I have been using the patriot for 3 months now and love it. This is my first gravity feed since coming from a Passche VL. Super easy to clean. I took Don Wheelers advice and ordered the rubber trigger cap and trigger that fits the 155 Anthem which will fit the Patriot but when I recieved the package it had the same trigger that is already on the Patriot. So I got ahold of badger to say I gat the wrong one and they told me they didnt sell the smaller trigger any more. So I had two of the same parts that didnt fit the rubber pad. Five minutes on a little lathe to turn it down abit and all is well. Im sure the smaller trigger could be hunted down though.

Bill

I have both the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Silverliner and the Badger Patriot 105F (F for fine nozzle). They are not in the same class as functional characteristics and manufacturing quality. You have to see and try both in person to appreciate the difference.

I have a Patriot 105 fine. The fine nozzle is is actually 0.5 mm so it soldemly had any tip dry problem with the acrylic. The medium nozzle has a 0.76 mm diameter should be good for most large area too. It is a very forgiving airbrush if that is what you are looking for. The finish of the AB does look cheaper.

On the other hand, the H&S solo comes with a 0.2 mm nozzle as standard. It is more for finer details if that is what you want. Compared to the Patriot fine needle, the H&S needle taper is twice as long. It gives the H&S a longer and more linear control of the trigger. It is more my perference, but a very personal choice. The finish looks very refined and the trigger is super smooth.

wjbwjb29

I took Don Wheelers advice and ordered the rubber trigger cap and trigger that fits the 155 Anthem which will fit the Patriot but when I recieved the package it had the same trigger that is already on the Patriot. So I got ahold of badger to say I gat the wrong one and they told me they didnt sell the smaller trigger any more. So I had two of the same parts that didnt fit the rubber pad. Five minutes on a little lathe to turn it down abit and all is well. Im sure the smaller trigger could be hunted down though.

Bill

keilau

It is more my perference, but a very personal choice.

I think this is the key, Keilau. As the 'old saying' goes, it is not the airbrush that makes the painter, but the painter that makes the airbrush. There are people who get superb finishes from 'inferior' airbrushes simply because they have used it enough and 'figured it out'.

bbrowniii

 

keilau:

 

It is more my perference, but a very personal choice.

 

 

I think this is the key, Keilau. As the 'old saying' goes, it is not the airbrush that makes the painter, but the painter that makes the airbrush. There are people who get superb finishes from 'inferior' airbrushes simply because they have used it enough and 'figured it out'.

I agree Boyd. One thing I notice with Keilau though is that he is an engineer and so he looks at airbrushes in a different manner than some would. He seems to think precise machining tolerances produce the best airbrush, which theoretically speaking may be true but that is not the case in the real world.

It is the skill of the hand wielding the airbrush and not the tool itself. Maybe the H&S is "smoother" in some people's opinion than the Patriot but I bet I can paint just as well with either. By the way I would not put the H&S in comparison to the Patriot as they are not really the same league of airbrush. The Sotar 20/20 and the Velocity would be in the same class IMHO.

Hmm. I agree and disagree.

I definitely agree that the hand wielding the airbrush matters more than the tool itself. The airbrush isn't the one modulating the trigger or directing the paint.

But I do think there's something to be said for the tool itself, especially when it comes to personal preference. It's like cars. Some people like smoothness. Some like power. Me, I prefer agility and a slight rough-around-the-edges character. So I drive a Mini. 

Case in point - my Grex Tritium. In terms of performance, it's a great brush. Throws paint well and, in my opinion, cleans out easier than either of my Iwatas. BUT...I find modulating the trigger frustrating, since the line between no paint and OMG-PAINT-EXPLOSION! is a very fine one. And ergonomically, I just don't like the pistol grip. It's great for stability, but I've found it gives me ridiculous hand cramps, so I don't use it all that often.

Try this http://www.precisiongermanairbrush.com/reviews.html

Gives an umber of reviews of the Evolution.

Laurie

Marine Sniper

 

 

I agree Boyd. One thing I notice with Keilau though is that he is an engineer and so he looks at airbrushes in a different manner than some would. He seems to think precise machining tolerances produce the best airbrush, which theoretically speaking may be true but that is not the case in the real world.

It is the skill of the hand wielding the airbrush and not the tool itself. Maybe the H&S is "smoother" in some people's opinion than the Patriot but I bet I can paint just as well with either. By the way I would not put the H&S in comparison to the Patriot as they are not really the same league of airbrush. The Sotar 20/20 and the Velocity would be in the same class IMHO.

I will be the first one to admit that I will not paint as well as MikeV even if you give me the best airbrush in world, like the hand-tuned Mojo from Mike Learn. Not by a long shoot.

I used to envy how Brent Green did such a wonderful job with his Aztek. Then I found out that the Aztek is not a good airbrush for me after getting one.

It is for the average Joe, a weekend modeler, like me that a "better" airbrush makes the difference. I found it easier for me to learn and build up skill with my Iwata HP-CS and the H&S Evolution than others that I also have. It is to a degree personal, but I stick with the comments I made.

1. I don't like airbrush whose trigger change from no flow to dumping paint too quickly.
2. I don't like the trigger feeling loose or sticky. ( 2 extremes)
3. I like springy needle with a good polished finish. (more damage resistent)
4. I like laying down paint in multi-pass, misty layers. (Small linear airflow angle)

They are in addition to a well balanced and easy to clean airbrush. These preferences are subjective but the observation are very objective.

keilau

I used to envy how Brent Green did such a wonderful job with his Aztek. Then I found out that the Aztek is not a good airbrush for me after getting one.

It is for the average Joe, a weekend modeler, like me that a "better" airbrush makes the difference. I found it easier for me to learn and build up skill with my Iwata HP-CS and the H&S Evolution than others that I also have. It is to a degree personal, but I stick with the comments I made.

1. I don't like airbrush whose trigger change from no flow to dumping paint too quickly.
2. I don't like the trigger feeling loose or sticky. ( 2 extremes)
3. I like springy needle with a good polished finish. (more damage resistent)
4. I like laying down paint in multi-pass, misty layers. (Small linear airflow angle)

They are in addition to a well balanced and easy to clean airbrush. These preferences are subjective but the observation are very objective.

Exactly. Well said. You made my point, in a way. You have found that the Iwata and the H&S are the best brushes for you. Me, I prefer the Badger. Different brushes, different 'abilities', but in both cases a brush that the user feels confidence with.

Well, I haven't had time to post much recently and don't have much now but...

For the last 4 - 5 weeks I've been using a 100LG, 105 and Omni 4000. Of the 3, I like the Omni. The 100 has the Fine tip and needle. It's a nice brush but with the crown cap it's hard to clean the tip of the needle if you need to and it's a little finicky with acrylics. It's a little tail heavy for me. I really want to like the 105 but the one I have is a little temperamental(sp). The Omni works really well. It has a pronounced double taper on the needle but is still very easy to regulate. Even with a shorter trigger throw than the other two. It's still a little tail heavy to me but swap on the 105 handle and it's perfect. I like the needle guard on it too. It's shaped like a little cup and can be used facing forward or turned around. When you turn it around and screw it on the aircap you hardly even notice it's there. That does leave the needle exposed but I've gotten used to that with the Sotar and actually prefer it. Seems to change the spray pattern slightly too. With it facing forward it seems to soften the edges a little. But that can be useful too. Either way, it gives you an option. Plus, Badger recently changed the back lever in the Omni and Renegade and now use a teflon needle seal rather than an o-ring.

I plan to order some parts very soon. I want to try a medium tip and needle on the 100 and see how that works. May send the 105 back and get Badger to check it out, I've done all I can. For the 100 and Omni I'm going to try the aluminum handles to lighten them a bit. The 100 has has a solid chrome handle and the Omni has the double cut outs in the middle but not the cut outs at the end of the handle like the 105. In fact, I like the Omni so much that very soon I may order an Omni 5000 with a 1/8 ounce cup and put an aluminum Vega handle on it.

Can't comment on the H&S, haven't had a chance to use one.

Tony

PS...I still like my CR though. And will try a BR. Soon...