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General advice wanted :)

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  • Member since
    November 2011
General advice wanted :)
Posted by Newtothis on Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:55 AM

 

Hey all,

I haven't made models since I was a kid but now I'm just getting back into it.

I'm looking through many of these threads for useful advice, but in the mean time I hope you don't mind if I ask some basic noob-type questions.

*  What is the best way to get a metalic finish on a largish area - like a P51 (which is what I hope to work on soon)?  Steps in the process etc?

* Best methods for decals?  I understand you put a coat of something over these, but I'm not sure what it is and  would welcome advice!  

* On that topic, is there a coat of something you apply to the model overall, once finished?  Presumably some of it will have different levels of gloss, so how is that sorted out?

* I don't yet own an airbrush.  Can I get away with spray cans, masking and brushes for the time being?

* I have looked at pictures of really well-done models, where some of the lines between panelling seems to be enhanced with fine dark lines... is there a particular technique for this?  And while we're at it, any other useful tips for minute details on the larger panels?

* any other tips or advice for beginners?

Thanks for putting up with my nooby questions... I am browsing other threads too, don't worry.

If you have anything else you'd like to suggest to a beginner please go ahead; I might be back with more basic questions!

 

Cheers!

:)

 

  • Member since
    November 2011
Posted by Newtothis on Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:38 AM

As I said, I've been looking over threads here.

With regard to metalic finishes, I came across this one...

 

/forums/t/139442.aspx

 

So, with some experimentation, is it good to use regular household foil for a metal finish??

 

Thanks again!

 

-

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:41 AM

Get a subscription of FSM. Most of the questions you have are answered in an article on modeling basic in the November issue. You can pick up a copy at local hobby shop or by mail order.

Welcome back to modeling. Start out slow with simple model and basic tools. Spray can and brush are fine. If you find youself like modeling, an airbrush is indespensible sooner or later. For such task you asked about enhancing the panel lines using pre-shading.

You can buy books at the LHS too. But there are plenty of free info on the internet too. Mike Ashey is my favorite as one of the best organized in book format. Testors Scaleworkshop has many good video by Brent Green. Hawkeys's Squawkerbox is another gem, but you have to dig to get the good information. These will keep you evening reading busy for a few months.

For the more advanced modeler, I will recommend ARC, LSP and Swanny's. Many of the local IPMS chapter sites are very good too. They are too many to list here. Come back when you want the links. There are some very good paid sites too. Don't read too much without start building models. Only practice makes perfect.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:25 AM

Alclad or similar product is best for large area bare metal finishes.  I have tried bare metal foil and it is very hard to put down large pieces with no wrinkles.  While there are several brands of metal "paint", I am partial to the Alclad myself.

You need to put down a high gloss black paint on the surface first.  Then, airbrush the appropriate shade of Alclad.  Unfortunately, you will have to invest in an airbrush and compressor.

There are no rattle can paints that do a good job of bare metal finish, in my opinion. If you cannot use an airbrush you need to select your subjects to avoid subjects with a bare metal surface (except for small areas that can be covered with the foil).

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Thursday, November 3, 2011 10:05 AM

Newtothis

Hey all,

I haven't made models since I was a kid but now I'm just getting back into it.

Welcome back! I was in your boat a little over a year ago. It's staggering how much has changed, and how much the internet has added to the knowledge base that's out there. 

I'll do my best to give my take on some of your questions...

*  What is the best way to get a metalic finish on a largish area - like a P51 (which is what I hope to work on soon)?  Steps in the process etc?

There are two basic ways. Paint, or direct application of metal.

Application of metal usually involves adhering foil. I've seen this done very, very well, but it's something I have no interest in trying myself. 

For paint, you have a ton of options. My favorite is Alclad II. You have to lay down a smooth primer base first (gloss black with their high-shine finishes), then airbrush in misting coats. Here's a post I wrote on my technique, and the results:

In rattlecan, there are two options I think would be passable (but not ideal) - Tamiya AS-12 Bare Metal Silver (IMO this does a better job of approximating aluminum lacquer paint) or Testors Model Master Metalizer (which comes in rattlecans as well as airbrush-ready bottles). The latter can be buffed to a high shine, but doesn't take masking very well.

Another option for the airbrushless is wax-based metallic paint. You can find this at hobby stores as Rub 'n Buff and similar. You literally just smear it on. The wax makes it very spreadable, then when it dries you can do whatever to it. Here's an example from the recent Austin SMS contest:

* Best methods for decals?  I understand you put a coat of something over these, but I'm not sure what it is and  would welcome advice!

After you paint, you want to put down a smooth, gloss clear coat. This will help the decals snuggle down onto the surface and prevent bubbles and silvering and all that nastiness. Use a decal setter as you position the decal, and a decal solvent to "melt" the decal and really suck it down to surface details. When the decals are done, seal them with another clear coat.

* On that topic, is there a coat of something you apply to the model overall, once finished?  Presumably some of it will have different levels of gloss, so how is that sorted out?

Yes. Usually either airbrushed or rattlecanned. Testors makes "Glosscote" and "Dullcote". Tamiya has clear gloss, clear semi-gloss, clear flat, etc. You want to apply in light, misting coats. 

* I don't yet own an airbrush.  Can I get away with spray cans, masking and brushes for the time being?

Yes. Though I'd highly advise an airbrush in the near future. 

* I have looked at pictures of really well-done models, where some of the lines between panelling seems to be enhanced with fine dark lines... is there a particular technique for this?  And while we're at it, any other useful tips for minute details on the larger panels?

Yes, this is a wash. There are two main approaches. The first is a pin wash, where small amounts of highly thinned paint are applied into a panel line. The capillary action pulls the paint along the panels. The other is a sludge wash, that is applied all over the model, then wiped off, leaving only the panel lines. I prefer the latter on aircraft, and use Flory Models clay-based washes since they wipe off very well. Stick with dark browns or greens. Black is too stark, unless you're working over a very dark color (dark blues tend to make dark browns look like, well, just brown).

I've got some other tips I could share, but those are airbrush-based. Though you can certainly use pigments to add fading to panels. You can use small dots of paint and work them in with a thinner-damped brush (this is called dot filtering, and adds subtle tonal variations to the paint). You can get a silver artist pencil (Prismacolor does a great one) and "tap" it along traffic areas and access panel edges to represent chipped paint.

* any other tips or advice for beginners?

1 - Start with kits YOU WANT TO BUILD! There's a lot of advice to pick up a very cheap kit because hey, who cares if you ruin it. I'd focus more on a kit with decent detail and a reputation for really good fit first...there are plenty of them to be found for less than $25. But importantly...have an interest in the subject and the kit you're building, otherwise it can get frustrating, especially for the first couple.

2 - Don't try to do everything at once. When I came back I was all "wow look at all these techniques!". But trying to take on too many at once got me into trouble a few times. I think tackling maybe one or two new techniques per build is a far more balanced way, and lets you really concentrate on those techniques. 

3 - Understand than 75% of modeling is subjective, and so is the other half Stick out tongue. What works for one person may not work for another. Everyone has different preferences and ways of doing things, and there's no one right answer. It's important to get a sense of the options, but at the end of the day, you have to figure out what works best for you on your own.

 

 

[/quote]

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    November 2011
Posted by Newtothis on Saturday, November 5, 2011 7:05 AM

Wow, thanks Doogs ATX and others... some really great advice here.  Since writing the first post I've been reading up lots here and elswhere...

 

I've got one last question which I haven't found a direct answer for yet...  A lot of people are suggesting putting "future" (which I guess is a clear finish) on canopies.  What is this in aid of?

Thanks again!!

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Saturday, November 5, 2011 10:06 AM

Newtothis

Wow, thanks Doogs ATX and others... some really great advice here.  Since writing the first post I've been reading up lots here and elswhere...

One of the best all round answer that I've seen.

Newtothis
 

I've got one last question which I haven't found a direct answer for yet...  A lot of people are suggesting putting "future" (which I guess is a clear finish) on canopies.  What is this in aid of?

Another reading for you: The complete future at Swanny's

The Future is a floor shine acrylic that makes the canopy plastic looks brand new. It is also a good tinting agent. Instead of putting future "on" canopy, you just dip the canopy "in" Future.

  • Member since
    July 2011
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by SuperNova-SS on Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:24 AM

Newtothis

* Best methods for decals?  I understand you put a coat of something over these, but I'm not sure what it is and  would welcome advice!  

I can answer that.  I believe you may be referring to the Microscale Decal System.  Catchy name, ain't it?  The economic way to go and still give great results is to pick up a bottle of their Micro Set, and Sol.  They should be on stock at any well-stocked Hobby Shop for about $3-4.00 each.  Here is a link to their website:

http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=FINPROD

First you simply take a new (best if unused), cheap artists brush, and brush the Micro Set on the area of the model you weant to decal, then simply slide the dampened decal into place.  After the decal has been positioned, you should press gently on it with a cloth (Paper towels might be tempting, but they can leave lint behind.  A T-shirt works well too).  If the decal is going over a textured surfase, or is on a curve, then that is where the Micro Sol comes in.  The Micro Sol softens the decal, allowing all bolts, rivets, panel lines, etc show through the decal.  After the Micro Set has mostly dried, then brush the Sol over the decal, and let it air dry.  Do not touch the decal for a while, since the Sol makes the decal very soft.  You can repeat applications of Micro Sol if needed.

Ok, those were very simple instructions, but I reccomend you find more in-depth instructions.  Here is a good article from ScaleAuto:

http://www.scaleautomag.com/How%20to%20and%20Models/How%20To/2009/04/How%20to%20apply%20decals.aspx

Newtothis

* I don't yet own an airbrush.  Can I get away with spray cans, masking and brushes for the time being?

How knows if I'll ever get an airbrush.  But for the most part, yes.  Spray cans are a great way to get realistic finishes without the cost of an airbrush.  Here is yet another ScaleAuto article about making show-class finishes using Tamiya Spray cans:

http://www.scaleautomag.com/How%20to%20and%20Models/How%20To/2008/12/Great%20paint%20from%20spray%20cans%20Part%20I.aspx

I usually Brush-paint the interior of aircraft, cars, and things like that, but for some things, such as blended borders between 2 colors, or complex camoflauge (such as those insane german late WWII tank and night fighter Camoflauge!), you really need an airbrush to make a good appearance.  But yes, for simple Paint schemes, brush-painting and spray cans will work perfectly fine.

Newtothis

* I have looked at pictures of really well-done models, where some of the lines between panelling seems to be enhanced with fine dark lines... is there a particular technique for this?  And while we're at it, any other useful tips for minute details on the larger panels?

OK, that is something I'm not terribly good at, but I'll give you the rundown.  Basically, you are taking super thin black paint, and spreading it over the panel lines after the model has been decaled, and wiping on what doesn't go into the panel lines.  The 'wash' as it is often called, sinks in to all those details which really make them stand out.  Some planes (Like most Revell and Monogram kits) Have raised panel lines, and a wash just won't work, but most Tamiya, Trumpeter Eduard, etc have recessed panel lines.

I probably have dragged on for too long, so I'll stop now. Wink  Hope this helps.

I play World of Tanks! (Yeah, I'm a dork)If anybody has one of those kits with the WoT coupons inside, I'll be happy to take them off of your hands!   :-)

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/the_real_red_baron/60E0B8F7.jpg

  • Member since
    November 2011
Posted by Newtothis on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 5:29 AM

Wow you guys are full of info.  Much appreciated!!  I think most of my basic questions are now answered;  I'll report back with any other specific queries.  Once again many thanks.

 

 

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