I'm Trying Something New (to me)!

I only airbrush with Testors airbrush thinner. It used to come in a black can, but now it is "universal" in a red can. Soenthing in the formula just makes the paint perform better than basic thinner. I swear by that stuff for any enamel airbrushing. I have those Tamiya stir sticks that have a screwdriver like blad at one end for stirring and a little spoon cup at the other end for scooping in paint one drop at a time. Between those and eyedroppers for dropping in thinner, my mixture ratios get pretty precise and are easily adjusted.

I thinned my Humbrol with Paint Thinner from Home Depot and I stirred it for about 30-40 seconds with my Badger Paint Mixer. I didn't get great coverage, but that's probably more to do with user-error than anything else.

For acrylics, I think I'll thin with the company's thinner or pledge (at least with the Vallejo). I have a paint palette I use for my paints or a wet palette that I use with acrylics.

Griffin

stikpusher:

Very interesting to see your results here. Of course it is pretty much the complete opposite of my expereince with those brands.

Isn't that funny how it always seems to be the case around here.

On MM, and Vallejo, I often have a slight sheen to their "Flat" colors. Never with Humbrols.

My Vallejo sometimes has a slight sheen to it, but only when I brush paint. It came out dead-flat through the AB.

I have never airbrushed Vallejos. So I can not speak of their performance there. But I do know that most everybody's paints, Tamiya, Testors, Polly Scale, Humbrol, Revell, Gunze, etc.  come out much flatter when airbrushed.

[quote user="Griffin"]

What do you thin Humbrols with for brush-painting?

[quote]I do my airbrushing in my garage with the door open and most of the year I have a nice onshore sea breeze so fumes are never a problem.

Must be nice.

 

1. I don't have a garage,
2. I live in Edmonton where it's winter 7 months each year. 

I just use standard hardware store paint thinner for thinning any of my enamels when hand brushing. With Humbrols I can not emphasize enough that they have to be stirred throughly (not shaken) to get best results, but once you start doing that, you will not be disappointed with them brushpainting. For acrylics I use either the brand thinner or distilled water (the only universal thinner that works for me with acrylics) to thin those. Since I wear contacts i discovered that the little case that each lens comes in makes a great little mixing bowl/pallet for thinning or mixing custom colors in. My supply of those things has built up rapidly since I discovered that function and my disposable contacts have a one month wear time. And the heavy duty foil covering can be used for small straps, belts, etc.

Yes it is nice here weatherwise most of the year We have summerlike or very mild weather at least 7 months of the year. Now thru March is our rainy/cool season, but even then it is just wet and cool in the daytime when a storm comes in. The garage cuts both ways, I lost my hobby room with our recent move and all my model stuff was banished to the new home's (bigger) garage.

stikpusher

Very interesting to see your results here. Of course it is pretty much the complete opposite of my expereince with those brands.

Isn't that funny how it always seems to be the case around here.

On MM, and Vallejo, I often have a slight sheen to their "Flat" colors. Never with Humbrols.

My Vallejo sometimes has a slight sheen to it, but only when I brush paint. It came out dead-flat through the AB.

For airbrushing, Testors universal enamel thinner is my preferred thinner for any enamel paint. It gives the paint a bit more "bite" during the airbrushing. I use hardware store paint thinner and lacquer thinner for cleanup afterwards.

What do you thin Humbrols with for brush-painting?

[quote]I do my airbrushing in my garage with the door open and most of the year I have a nice onshore sea breeze so fumes are never a problem.[quote]

Must be nice.

1. I don't have a garage,
2. I live in Edmonton where it's winter 7 months each year.

Very interesting to see your results here. Of course it is pretty much the complete opposite of my expereince with those brands. Humbrol and Model Master enamels are my "go to" 1st choice nearly every time. For handbrushing Humbrols are always my first choice. And I have found their coverage and adhesion second to none. Not to mention finish. On MM, and Vallejo, I often have a slight sheen to their "Flat" colors. Never with Humbrols. For airbrushing, Testors universal enamel thinner is my preferred thinner for any enamel paint. It gives the paint a bit more "bite" during the airbrushing. I use hardware store paint thinner and lacquer thinner for cleanup afterwards. I do my airbrushing in my garage with the door open and most of the year I have a nice onshore sea breeze so fumes are never a problem.

As I mentioned above, I conducted an experiments to test the adhesion of various paints and thinners:

V T = Vallejo thinned with Testors Universal Acrylic Thinner:

V V = Vallejo thinned with Vallejo Thinner:

H = Humbrol Paint thinned with Paint Thinner:

V P = Vallejo thinned with Pledge with Future Shine (Future):

Sorry for the crummy photos.

1. I primed the bottle with Krylon Sandable Primer and left it to dry for a few days,
2. I drew the squares with a permanent marker and painted in each area as noted. I left this to dry for about 2 days,
3. I stuck a continuous piece of painter's tape over the swatches and let them sit for about 5 minutes, trying to ensure the pressure applied to each swatch was the same.
4. I removed the tape to see if any paint came up.
5. I rubbed each swatch with my thumb 10 time, trying to keep equal pressure on each one.
6. I scratched the swatches with a metal paint stick.
7. I applied the same piece of tape from above and let sit for about 5 minutes and removed.

I tried to treat each swatch equally, so as not to influence the results. It's hard to tell from the crappy pictures but the paint thinned with the Testors was the least adhesive. A piece came off with the first round of tape and it seemed to scratch the easiest.

The Humbrol was okay, though it didn't cover as well as the others and would have required a second coat.

The paint thinned with the Vallejo thinner and the paint thinned with the Future were about the same. The Future did make the paint a little more glossy though. Both adhered well when removing the tape. Both resisted scratching about the same.

Having conducted this experiment, I think I am going to continue using Vallejo paints. They seem to be quite popular and well-recommended and they seemed to adhere fairly well in today's experiment. While searching for some pointers this morning, I came across the following that may help me:

In the past I had issue with the paint rubbing off down to the primer. Through trial and error I have found that VMC needs a little tooth in the primer for the best adhesion. Mr Surfacer 1000 airbrushed is just too smooth for the paint and I have had much better luck airbrushing  Mr Surfacer 500 or an automotive primer from a rattle can. I also had better results with paint adhesion by using their thinner instead of water.

The paint is far too thick for hand painting right out of the bottle. The paints can be thinned with tap water or their thinner. Their Model Color thinner is nearly as thick as the paint, so a tip I learned was to thin their thinner 50/50 with water and then use this to thin the paint. Store the thinned thinner in a similar eyedropper bottle to ease dispensing.

I re-primed my Spitfire today to see if this helps my cause. I guess I'll find out.

Don Stauffer

I am also in basement about 12 feet from furnace. Of course, now I have a new high-efficiency furnace with sealed outdoor air intake, but even with the old normal furnace I sprayed enamels for twenty years with no explosion. 

That's encouraging. That's more or less the same set-up I have. I spray into a paint "booth," a big box with a diffuser screen in it.

Do not use the airbrush like a spray can.  Consider it more like a super-smooth brush. By that, I mean crank down the pressure and get close to the model with the nozzle of the airbrush.  There should be little overspray.  Most of the stuff that comes out of the airbrush goes on the model.

I had noticed this while using my brush. I'll just try to be more aware of what I am doing and keep the overspray to a minimum.

When I clean up, I have a jar with a gadget on top that I spray into and it captures the thinner which runs down into the jar.

I have some home-made contraptions that are similar.

Griffin

I was thinking about getting some of the Testor's Universal Enamel Thinner for thinning the paint.

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of spraying enamels through my AB. The fumes can be and I'm spraying in the basement so I don't want the furnace to blow us to smithereens.

I am also in basement about 12 feet from furnace. Of course, now I have a new high-efficiency furnace with sealed outdoor air intake, but even with the old normal furnace I sprayed enamels for twenty years with no explosion. 

Do not use the airbrush like a spray can.  Consider it more like a super-smooth brush. By that, I mean crank down the pressure and get close to the model with the nozzle of the airbrush.  There should be little overspray.  Most of the stuff that comes out of the airbrush goes on the model.

When I clean up, I have a jar with a gadget on top that I spray into and it captures the thinner which runs down into the jar.

VanceCrozier

Griffin - for the MM s Humbrol question - I've had good luck with both in the airbrush (although I've been airbrushing mostly acrylics recently due to the fumes) and thin with low-odour Varsol with no issues. Whe it comes to brush-painting I prefer the Humbrol enamels over the MM, better colour density. I wish they didn't use those bloody little tins though!

Hey Vance. What do you generally brush paint with? What acrylics have you generally been spraying?

[EDIT] Several people have mentioned the Humbrol tins. I have a badger paint mixer. Will this help with the mixing or am I asking for a disaster in the tiny tin?

Griffin - for the MM s Humbrol question - I've had good luck with both in the airbrush (although I've been airbrushing mostly acrylics recently due to the fumes) and thin with low-odour Varsol with no issues. Whe it comes to brush-painting I prefer the Humbrol enamels over the MM, better colour density. I wish they didn't use those bloody little tins though!

I was thinking about getting some of the Testor's Universal Enamel Thinner for thinning the paint.

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of spraying enamels through my AB. The fumes can be and I'm spraying in the basement so I don't want the furnace to blow us to smithereens.

Right now, I'm trying to settle on a brand of paint to use for brush painting.

If my experiment with the new primer concludes that the Vallejos adhere as well as the Humbrols, I may just stick with the Vallejos to save myself the hassles of having to use the more harsh thinning/cleaning agents. I do my building and painting in the living room with the family around so I don't want to gas them out.

If the experiment doesn't work out so well for the Vallejos, then I may look into using MM Acryls or Tamiyas in my AB.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to solve my adhesion problems with the Vallejo paints? I washed all the parts and primed them with Vallejo primer. I would have thought the paint would grip well to the company's own primer.

I use Testors enamels as my usual paint.  While I have several friends who thin with mineral spirits or generic paint thinner, I believe my airbrush painting comes out slightly better when I use the Testors airbrush thinner.  It does not quite double my cost of painting (I clean up with the hardware store stuff).  Considering the cost of paint vs the cost of resin aftermarket and PE, even using the Testors thinner is not a major cost of building a kit.  I may be misleading myself, but again I believe I get a slightly smoother more even coat with the Testors thinner, though using the generic stuff is certainly doable and almost as good.  But, again, you aren't saving that much.  A four-ounce can does several kits for me.

Griffin - i've a/b with both MM and Humbrol and find they are great for a/b.  I can actually get them to flow better than acrylics and prefer them for freehand camo, however, i mainly use acrylics (because i'm lead to believe they are 'safer' and easier to cleanup).

I normally thin with Tamiya's enamel thinner for both - mainly because it's easy for me to buy here and because i've heard some non-modelling thinner's can be a bit hot on the plastic (i have no idea which ones though).

For cleanup, i use mineral turpentine, which cuts through pretty much everything and is relatively cheap

Griff- I've used Testors and MM enamels almost exclusively for over 30 years. Not that I have anything against acrylics or other brands, but Testors and MM have just worked.

I've always thinned with mineral spirits, paint thinner, or laquer thinner. Currently I only use an 'environmentally friendly' laquer thinner I find at Home Depot- Kleen Strip Green. Seems to work just fine.

I did use some Humbrol Trainer Yellow a couple years ago (airbrushed and thinned 1:1), and had the same result as with MM. Good luck with your Humbrol to Vallejo comparison.

I was reading the back of the can of paint thinner today and it says it contains mineral spirits.

In the mean time, I've primed a pop bottle with a rattle can primer and I'm going to paint two swatches of corresponding colours of Vallejo and Humbrol so I can do a side-by-side comparison of how well the paint adheres.

Thanks guys,

I looked for mineral spirits at Home Depot but I didn't see any. I saw low odour paint thinner, regular paint thinner, varsol, toulene and lacquer thinner but no mineral spirits.

I thin my MM paints with odorless mineral spirits (same stuff they sell at home depot or any hardware store) and it works just fine.  For cleanup I use lacquer thinner.

I personally have had difficulty airbrushing the humbrol paints, for me the MM is much more straight forward.

This is gonna sound really off the wall. but what about priming with silver, and letting the wear stay to look like weathering?