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Problems with enamels after years using lacquers

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  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Massachusetts
Problems with enamels after years using lacquers
Posted by tetsujin on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:08 PM

I stopped using Model Master enamels on a regular basis about ten years ago.  On my current project I decided to give them a try again...  And I may have made a few mistakes along the way and I'm trying to figure out how bad the damage is.

Basically, I have a bad habit of coating parts too thickly, I think.  And on this project, I actually tweaked the colors a few times after seeing the final effects of the mixtures I'd chosen, and so I'd add another coating with the new color.  Like I said I think each individual coat was probably a little too thick...  In between coats I waited a couple days, based on a FAQ I found on Testors' site.

There's one part in particular that I needed to handle after painting (after a couple days) - the paint felt a bit gummy and it came off the edges of the part as a result of the handling.  I am concerned that this paint isn't going to cure, but I don't really know what to expect.  Right now, after having realized what happened, I'm leaving the part alone, hoping the paint may yet firm up, so I can sand out the areas I've messed up and spot-paint as necessary.  But if the curing process of the paint has been hopelessly messed up, then there's no point waiting, I should just strip it and start over.  Doing this for the one part wouldn't be too bad, but I'm concerned that the other parts of the kit (which I haven't handled since painting) may be in similar dire straits.  If I'm on the path to ruining this project, I'd better correct it as soon as I can.  As much as that would suck, if it's the best way to proceed I'd better just do it...  But if I just need to wait longer, I can do that.

As I said, I've mostly been using lacquers (and some acrylics) over the last ten years - pretty much everything I've done since I got my first good airbrush, and almost everything I'd consider my "good" work, I've done with lacquers.  I'm trying enamels again in part as an exercise in nostalgia (all my old hand-painted stuff was with Testors enamels) and in part because the advantages of lacquers (quick drying, a curing process that's more or less reversible when the paint is exposed to more thinner, etc.) can also be disadvantages.  I wanted to see what the slow curing process of enamels (and the presumably better leveling properties) could mean for my projects.  But I think I may have rushed things anyway.  :)

Well, I hope somebody with a little more experience with enamels can help me out with this.  Thanks.

Tags: enamel , Paint
---GEC
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:13 PM

enamels are a lot thicker. i use to be an acrylic guy but now use both acrylic and enamel. i had an over spray problem also and wasn't use to the slow drying. i kept testing,testing,and testing. i thin them at about 50/50 depending because each bottle has a different consistency. i spray at around 12 to 15 psi depending. i spray back and forth with light coat and build it up. you want to make sure it's not to thick or to thin. being thick will cause it to be well thick and not cure or dry properly. to thin will cause it to run unless spraying at a very low pressure.

what pressure are you spraying at?

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hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:47 PM

Are you spraying gloss or flat paints? If you are talking about gloss, I find that generally, gloss paints take longer to cure and harden (than flats) and are often dry, though somewhat tacky for a considerable length of time.

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by tetsujin on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:07 AM

These are flats.  I did thin them quite a bit (sort of experimentally.  I did test sprays on a piece of plastic.  If the spray seemed coarse I added thinner until it smoothed out...  Spraying at about 15PSI I think.  I think each coat went on quite nicely, nice and smooth, but over the course of a week or so due to tweaks I was making to the color mixture and so on, it just built up into a bunch of coats, possibly too many.  Or maybe I just need to wait longer, I'm not sure...  I have heard that it takes enamels a good couple of weeks to fully cure - so I guess it could just be a matter of waiting longer...  Though I'd like to get masking done on the parts that need it before then, if I can get away with it.  :)

---GEC
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:38 PM

im still learning enamels as well.

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:48 PM

Maybe the problem is the kit material.  I once worked on a resin figure on which no kind of paint would dry.  I tried acrylics, enamel, and laquers, stripping off each coat before trying another.  I finally concluded it was because I soaked the model parts in alcohol to clean the mold release compound.  I think the alcohol bath ruined the resin for paint adhesion.  Sadly, I gave up and threw out the nice model.  Since then, I use only dishwashing detergent and water to clean the parts.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Kingsport, TN.
Posted by 01JeepXJ on Thursday, July 19, 2012 2:27 PM

I think you're spraying too heavy. Enamel takes a WHILE to dry/cure. Some builders use a food dehydrator to cure their enamel paint jobs-say it works overnight.

Did you use enamel thinner? Basic old laquer thinner is better. Start with a ratio of 2 paint/1thinner.

Mist these coats around 20psi.

Worst case on your current project= soak in brake fluid.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and only annoys the pig.

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: AZ
Posted by Luft Modeler on Thursday, July 19, 2012 3:00 PM

The best way I have found is that I use Model Master Enamel and mixed with Testors enamel thinner, close to a 50/50 mix but its all eye balled... I use a glass bottle to make the mixture and when you shake it, it should be the consistency of about 2% milk... no problems with it and as always spray on scrap first.

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by tetsujin on Saturday, July 21, 2012 2:14 AM

I think the paint has firmed up a bit.  That's a relief.  I'll probably let it sit around untouched for a while longer just to be sure, though.

---GEC
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