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Help, paint is rubbing off...with water!

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mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 11:26 AM

It is definitely strange, and I cannot repeat it, but it went all the way through to the primer. I'm no chemist, but maybe something to do with the Aqua Gloss when it broke down?  It is just so incredible so see, an almost instant reaction to the water.  I am going to give the paint coat and the top coat extra cure time before trying decals again.  

  • Member since
    December 2011
Posted by Chrisk-k on Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:07 PM

Tamiya acrylics are alcohol-based. There is no way water can remove them once they are cured.

However, Aqua Gloss is water-based. Unless it's 100% cured, water will remove it.

Iwata HP-CS | Iwata HP-CR | Iwata HP-M2 | H&S Evolution | Iwata Smart Jet + Sparmax Tank

mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:46 PM

It happened again!  Apparently I do not learn.

Once again, Tamiya acrylic thinned with alcohol, and topped with Aqua Gloss (and tan color again).  Funny thing is, it does not happen everywhere on the kit, but where it does happen, the water acts like a solvent. The instant it hits the paint it starts fading it, and the paint rubs right off.

Only thing is, this time I am not sure how long I let everything cure.  I have spent more time on this kit than anything I have ever built before, so it should have had plenty of time to cure.

I am going to touch it up, let it cure again, and gloss coat again.

The modeling gods are not going to allow me to get cockySmile

  • Member since
    July 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:42 PM

And GOD said:    "Repaint.... and thin no more!"

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage"

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:05 PM

...It was just your turn to have it from the modeling gods...Hmm

 

 

mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:26 PM

Here is an update - I let the Tamiya paint on the CD/primer cure for 48 hours.  I then airbrushed 4 sections with 4 different gloss coats, Aqua-gloss, Microscale gloss, Model Master gloss, and Future.  The gloss coats have cured for something under 36 hours.

They all held up well, with Aqua-gloss and Microscale being maybe a tiny bit more resistant than the other two, but not enough to make any difference.

The Aqua-gloss is not hurt at all by water or mineral spirits.  So why did it wash away, and take the paint with it when I was applying decals with water?  I guess one of the mysteries of life :)  One thing for certain, I let the paint cure for longer in my experiment.

Anyway, I think I will gloss coat the P-40 again, and then try the decals again to see what happens.

mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Sunday, March 3, 2013 10:56 AM

I AB'd some Tamiya over rattle-can primer yesterday, thinned with alcohol.  I will wait until tomorrow, 48 hours, to let it cure before gloss coating it.

Today I can rub the paint off easily with alcohol, which makes perfect sense, since it was thinned with alcohol.  I cannot get it to rub off with water.  It would appear the Aqua-gloss is having some affect on the finish.

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Sunday, March 3, 2013 10:48 AM

But Chuck isn't X-20A mostly alcohol too?

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:39 AM

Maybe Tamiya paints don't like to be thinned with alcohol.  For their acrylics, I always use Tamiya X-20A thinner and have had no problems.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Saturday, March 2, 2013 5:52 PM

Not a silly question at all.  I wondered if I had something left in the brush, but then I got fresh water and a different brush and had the same results.  Maybe I will go back and start with fresh water again, and a q-tip, no way it would be contaminated.  

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Saturday, March 2, 2013 5:30 PM

This may sound like a silly or stupid question but, are you Positive it was water? Did you accidentally dip the brush or decals in a water/alcohol mix?? I've heard of people messing up like that, grabbing the wrong bottle of this or that...I know I've done similar things, dipped the brush in laquer instead of water or vise versa...Thats all I got for ya man...

 

 

mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Posted by mgh on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:27 PM

I did not clean the plastic, but the paint is not lifting, it is dissolving.  Good point about paint curing, I do not remember how long I waited for that.  The gloss coat had 24 hours.  Thanks for the response.

  • Member since
    August 2012
Posted by AndrewW on Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:59 AM

Perhjaps a stupid question, but did you clean the plastic first?  I know I've had some, where despite cleaning and priming, I did not get a good adhesion (bad batch of plastic?) and had paint lift.  Could also have been that the paint layers weren't cured? I've never used aqua gloss, so I don't know how it would all react.

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne.


mgh
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Utah County, Utah
Help, paint is rubbing off...with water!
Posted by mgh on Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:45 AM

I don't know what the heck is going on here.

I did not prime this kit, painted it with Tamiya paints thinned with alcohol, then gloss coated it with Aqua-gloss. Started putting on decals, and the paint dissolves.  It did not lift off, it just plain dissolved.  It went through the gloss coat, and through 2 colors of paint, right down to bare plastic.  This is using plain tap water, no decal set or anything else.  The Aqua-gloss had set for a little over 24 hours.  Maybe not long enough?

One thing I did differently than I have before is I put a heavy coat of Aqua-gloss on the decal sheet.  I got this kit from another modeler, and I did not know how old the decals were, and I have had terrible luck with old decals falling apart.  But I was able to rub off the paint on areas that I had not tried to apply decals to, so the problem does not seem to be related to the decal application.

Weird thing is, on a CD case I experimented with, this does not happen.  I did prime the CD case with rattle-can primer.

On the rear part of the wing here I just worked some water in with a brush.

This is the first time I have used the Aqua-gloss, but regardless of that, the water went through 2 layers of paint!

Anyone have any ideas? 

I am going to do some experiments - prime some CD cases to get a good base finish, airbrush some Tamiya/alcohol, and then gloss-coat with the different products I have.  I have a bit of Testors gloss, and bought some Microscale gloss the same time I bought the Aqua-gloss, and will use some Future.

Thanks!

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