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Exhaust weathering and panel lines

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  • Member since
    September 2010
Exhaust weathering and panel lines
Posted by alldetails on Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:08 PM

Just wondering if all ww2 aircraft need to have exhaust stains since most of the planes had new engines and low hours on them.  Those that logged the time, certainly they would---they weren;t rebuilt unless they were unreliable. 

Since I worked on the 1/1 scale f15s and f18s here in Saint Louis, Mo I didn't see the panel lines nearly as pronounced as some modelers have shown.  These were new aircraft and the surface mismatch drawings allowed  no gaps between skins on the aircraft.  Very little depth was allowed also which would almost make them invisible.I suppose it is a matter of personal taste as to how much is depicted.

Tags: Overdone?
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:42 PM

As always, if your aim is to evoke reality, it's best to look at photos, or as in your case, the real thing.

For exhaust stains, usually there is some trace, but it can depend on how hard the pilot was pushing his aircraft - after a dogfight there most definitely would be stains.

Panel lines - at the smaller scales there likely few if any visible.  There is a tendency to overkill in this area, and some have decided to restrain this detail.  It's an interesting era for model building, as some try to push the envelope either for art's sake, while others just find reality boring.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, August 16, 2013 9:46 AM

One big difference is aircooled vs liquid cooled.  Air cooled engines are set up with larger clearances and pass more oil than liquid cooled ones.  So if there is a large radial up front you can use exhaust stains even on planes not elsewise heavily weathered.  Liquid cooled engines to wear, of course.  Especially in wartime service with high useage, they will begin to use oil, and the result will be exhaust stains, but then on such a heavily used aircraft you should have other signs of weathering.  A heavy exhaust stain from an Allison or Merlin or whatever may look out of place on an otherwise pristine aircraft.  

I personally think a lot of panel lines are overdone. Access panels are one thing- they do show use- but normally non-removable panels do not usually show to heavy a line between panels, especially on painted surfaces.  Visit museums, or look at airplanes at a local airport.  Most panel lines are hard to see at normal viewing distances.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Bent River, IA
Posted by Reasoned on Friday, August 16, 2013 9:40 PM

Don Stauffer

I personally think a lot of panel lines are overdone. Access panels are one thing- they do show use- but normally non-removable panels do not usually show to heavy a line between panels, especially on painted surfaces.  Visit museums, or look at airplanes at a local airport.  Most panel lines are hard to see at normal viewing distances.

I'd agree with that.  I think the emphasis on panel lines gives the model more depth on such a small scale (in many instances) and therefore it seems many modelers have been taught to play on this.  That being said, I've seen some fantastic looking builds with raised panels, which makes one wonder why a skilled builder would go through the trouble or scribing panel lines on an otherwise perfectly good kit.

Science is the pursiut of knowledge, faith is the pursuit of wisdom.  Peace be with you.

On the Tarmac: 1/48 Revell P-38

In the Hanger: A bunch of kits

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Friday, August 16, 2013 10:40 PM

Another aspect is fuels. The allies had a premium on quality aircraft fuel, especially later on. Later model German planes would have fairly significant exhaust stains. You rarely saw P-51's or Spits with much more than a light 'wisp' of a stain behind he stacks.

-Tom

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:47 AM

Could be that because of their poorer fuel the Germans had to enrichen the mixture further than the allies.  This would make sense.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Saturday, August 17, 2013 2:49 PM

Don. That's the way I understand it. Especially when they lost the Romanian oil fields, they had very limited supplies. What they did have was around 85-87 octane, with some of that being synthetics, refined from coal. Pretty crummy stuff for aircraft, much less dogfighting and it would not have burned very clean at all, requiring a richer mixture. Their planes probably were very hard to keep running very smoothly (?). Especially in 1945, the Germans could only launch 4 Fw190D-9's at a time due to fuel shortages (with few pilots left who could really master them anyway).

The allies had ample and good, clean burning fuels. I am pretty sure this was 100 octane (one of General Doolittle's projects while at Shell oil), much the same fuel as general aviation piston engine aircraft in the US use today.

-Tom

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:54 PM

Just a matter of personal taste, but to me a scale model with no shading or color variation looks too boring and toy like. I realize that panel lines and the shading for the most part (although there are always exceptions) arent indicative of the craft I build, but to my eye it just looks better.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:40 PM
I agree with you on the panel lines. Ive been to many airshows and seen fighters up close and panel lines are very light, some are invisible. Like you said they dont have the same depth as depicted on models but again its all personal preference. I try to make my panel lines very very light, almost invisible. When you look at the model there is just enough to suggest that they are separate panels.

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Friday, August 30, 2013 1:31 AM

Gotta agree with Reaper on this.

Barring the unusual exception, panels should be, to paraphrase,  heard not seen or in other words indicated lightly but not with great romping black lines. 

NOTICE: Your opinion may vary due to personal preference or a desire to follow the herd

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

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