Badger Needles Question

Yes, you can put a Krome needle in the Patriot and vis versa. They have similar diameters.

No, they are not interchangable because the needle and nozzle are meant to be used as a pair from the same airbrush. The fine needle from Renagade (0.33 mm) has a linear flow angle of 6.5 degrees. The fine from Patriot is a double taper tip with 33.2°/8.02° angles. You may be able to spray, but the atomization will suffer.

Put your Krome and Patriot needles side by side, you will immediately notice the much longer taper of the Krome's needle tip. That's the source of the superior performance of the Krome. Besides, they are micropolished and the Patriot's has much poorer finish.

Now that you get the Krome, you probably never want to go back to the Patriot again. The Krome offers you so much more for a little more money. You made the right decision.

Thanks for the info.  I soaked the needle overnight and the original one seems to be sliding just fine now.  Looking forward to trying it out.

John

OK, I did one session with the fine needle and it started to get "sticky".  It wouldn't slide all the way closed when I released the trigger.  I cleaned everything and it still is sticking.  I put the ultra fine needle in and it works and slides as I would expect.  I tried it with and without the tip, so it has to be the needle since the ultra fine works.  the fine needle needs a little push when I try to insert it.

HELP; do I try to get a new needle or is the unit shot?  It seems to spray OK except for the needle sticking.  Where is the best place to get a replacement needle? I just don't want the worry, so maybe I am better off to buy new from a reputable dealer like *** Blick or Michaels?  

I have NO faith in buying from Amazon as this is where I got this bad one.  Thoughts?

Thanks.

John

Hi,

I myself have never had any problem with amazon, its where I get most of my parts.  that being said, another good place for parts is Dixie Art  Supplies.  

http://www.dixieart.com

hope it helps..

Delbert

The Krome needle seal is adjustable.  Yours is set a little too tight.  It is fairly common to have a slight variation in needle shaft diameter.  Remove the trigger assembly and readjust the seal from the rear of the airbrush.  There is a picture of it on this page.  It is a very sensitive adjustment and you may have to try a few times.  You should feel just a little drag with each needle when you remove or install them.  They probably won't feel exactly the same, but you should be able to make them both work.

Don

Don;

Thanks very much!  I will try that.  I had disassembled it and that operation will be tricky.  Is it the standard clockwise to tighten?

John

Yes, it is standard.  But it is a very touchy adjustment.  On mine, it is barely tight when set right.  It would have been nice if they had used a finer pitch on the thread.  You can test the adjustment with the back end of the needle.

Don

Don;

Thanks again.  I think I was able to get it to turn a bit.  The toothpick was twisting pretty severely and  I didn't think I was getting anywhere.  When I tried the needle again it slid in much easier and when I reassembled it the whole thing seems to be working well.  I think that part was really in there very tightly.

I will hopefully get to shoot some paint later today.  Thanks so much for your help:)

John

Glad to hear it's working.  I use a small jeweler's screwdriver to do the adjustment.

Don.

Did a session and it worked great.  I think that was it.  In your review, did the question ever get to Badger about this issue?  Just curious.

I called them on Friday and the girl told me customer support was M - Th.  they do 10 hour days.  I wanted to see what they had to say about it.

John

pilotjohn

Did a session and it worked great.  I think that was it.  In your review, did the question ever get to Badger about this issue?  Just curious.

I called them on Friday and the girl told me customer support was M - Th.  they do 10 hour days.  I wanted to see what they had to say about it.

John

I've never brought it up with them.  I've seen some variation between needles, but it has never caused me any problem.  It would be interesting to see what they tell you.

Don

Don;

I finally got around to calling Badger.  I have been using both needles without incident although the fine needle takes more effort to seat than does the ultra fine one.

Badger told me that they can be too " snug".  I mentioned to him the process you described and he said that was OK.  I told him that the needles took a different amount of effort to seat and he told me that the needles can be of slightly different diameter.  He said it is also possible that one could be slightly bowed.  With a theoretically new unit, this doesn't make sense to me although I did not bring that up.  He said I could by another needle or send them the brush and they would look at it.

As long as it is working, I am not in a hurry to do anything.  Thought you would like to hear what they had to say.

John

Thanks for the feedback.  If the needle is bowed enough to affect drag, it shouldn't have left the factory.  You can easily check for bow by rolling it on a flat surface. It doesn't take much change in needle diameter to affect drag.  That's why the adjustment is so touchy.  I've found you can use some fine polishing paper or polishing compound on the shaft where it goes through the seal and make a noticeable difference.

Don

Don;

Rolls flat and true.  I put it back in and although a little tight, it works fine.  I think I will just keep using it and not mess with it as long as it works:)

John

It will loosen a little with use.  After a while you may be able to see where the seal rubs the needle and polishes it.

Don

The Badger customer service is top notch, if not the fastest. But their production quality varies. I have had 2 badger airbrushes so far.

The trigger was very sticky when I received my brand new Patriot 105 Fine. The needle was straight, but unpolished.

The Krome worked perfectly from day one. I am used to the Iwata and H&S type trigger action. The Krome is as good as them. The needle is polished with a small linear flow angle, making it a good tool for modeling.

I sent my hardly used Patriot in for service, free of charge. It came back as smooth as the Krome. But the performance is nowhere near the Krome because of it bi-cone, large linear flow angle needle. Bottom line, you get what you pay for, even from the same brand.

In summary, the Krome has a long linear stroke trigger. The Patriot trigger action is sensitive, fast release type. I like the Krome because it offers more figure control to the modeler. But there are users who perfer the Patriot type.

Don;

What polishing "method" and equipment do you recommend?  Thanks.

John

pilotjohn

Don;

What polishing "method" and equipment do you recommend?  Thanks.

John

Just to make it clear, we're talking about polishing the shaft of the needle so it slides easier through the needle seal, not the tapered part.  There is just a small area of the needle shaft that contacts the seal.  So, you don't have to polish the whole thing.  The safest way would be to use a little metal polish on a rag or paper towel.  If that doesn't make enough difference,  a piece of wet or dry paper used wet will do it.  I think I used 600 grit paper on my 3155 needle.  It doesn't take much.  If you overdo it, your tight needle will become your loose needle.  So, do a little and test often.  Keep rotating so the needle doesn't go out of round.

Needle drag is not a critical thing.  The seal can be pretty loose and still function well.  And, as long as it isn't so tight that it prevents the needle from springing back when you release the trigger, it's OK too.  Some of the Thayer & Chandler airbrushes don't even have a seal, just a close fitting bore.  The needle in them slides very freely, and they work just fine.

Don