Clear coat over MM enamels?????

flygilmore

Thanks again for the help guys.

I noticed that the flat clear has a much darker appearance (somewhat cloudy/milky) in the jar compared to the gloss clear which is much clearer....is this normal?  I noticed that the lid wasn't on that tight compared to the  others and didn't know if it has started going bad.

Yes, its very normal. Even when stirred it will still look cloudy. All this is normal.

flygilmore

On another note, have any of you used the Testors decal set?  I got some and was wondering about how well it works.  Thanks!!!

Yes, I've used the Testors/ModelMaster decal set for years and have never experienced any problems with it.

Gary

Thanks again for the help guys.

I noticed that the flat clear has a much darker appearance (somewhat cloudy/milky) in the jar compared to the gloss clear which is much clearer....is this normal?  I noticed that the lid wasn't on that tight compared to the  others and didn't know if it has started going bad.

On another note, have any of you used the Testors decal set?  I got some and was wondering about how well it works.  Thanks!!!

Just allow the enamel plenty of time for outgassing as the solvents evaporate prior to overcoating with clear.

stikpusher

Texgunner

stikpusher

Also on some of my kits it has interacted with residue from decal setting/solvent solutions leaving brown tide marks under the top coat that can bot be removed. It has done this ona few of my builds that are around 20 years old now...

I've had this happen as well stik.  But, those kits, like those you mentioned, are also 20 years old or close to it (my how time does fly, huh?) and I can't recall when I switched from Testors Glosscoat to using Future.  At any rate, I am sure the brown discoloration was caused by the decal set that I used.

Gary

Was that Micro Set? I pretty much have used only Micro Set/Micro Sol for the past 25 years until recently. I still use them both, but have added Solvaset to my bag of tools & tricks. I think that I switched to using Future instead of the Testors rattle cans in the late 90s or so. But it took me a few more years of councing around between various topcoats before I settled on Humbrol for my Matt coat of choice. And yes, time does fly.

Stik, it was Model Master decal set iirc.  That's been my choice for 90% of the "decaling" I've done.  It came in the same sized bottles as MM enamel.  I do have an ancient (circa '88 or '89) bottle of Solvaset that I still employ for those really stubborn decals; it has somewhat yellowed with age too.  Really, I've had very little trouble with decals over the years, every now and then one has split into several pieces or folded over on itself.  I'm still using Future for my gloss coat for decals and finishing with MM flat acrylic.  I would like to try some of the Alclad gloss though if I ever reach that point again; starting to wonder if I'll ever finish another plane...dang ol' muse just won't hang around.  My Revell A6-E is just about ready to paint but I want to use my brand new Sotar AB for some of that and that bad boy has me in-tim-idated!  But, however, "Onward through the fog!!"

Gary

It's safe to spray lacquer over enamel by using light mist coats. The lacquer will dry almost at it hits the surface. The only time I see a problem is when hand brushing it, otherwise not a problem.

Texgunner

stikpusher

Also on some of my kits it has interacted with residue from decal setting/solvent solutions leaving brown tide marks under the top coat that can bot be removed. It has done this ona few of my builds that are around 20 years old now...

I've had this happen as well stik.  But, those kits, like those you mentioned, are also 20 years old or close to it (my how time does fly, huh?) and I can't recall when I switched from Testors Glosscoat to using Future.  At any rate, I am sure the brown discoloration was caused by the decal set that I used.

Gary

Well, I bought both a clear and a gloss Model Masters "lacquer" and also the lacquer thinner to go with them so I could spray in my AB.  I guess I will test some before I coat the whole model.  

If something was to foul up when putting these clears over the enamels, would it pretty much happen within a couple minutes time frame?  Again, thanks for the help folks, it is  a bunch to digest all at once for someone just entering this hobby.

While Testors products labeled lacquer are indeed lacquer, what is confusing is that at one time recently they offered both a lacquer clearcoat and an enamel clearcoat, and Glosscoat.  The ones labeled with the type of chemistry are fine, but you were never sure what the Glosscoat was. In the rattle cans, it seemed like the Glosscoat for awhile smelled different than usual and took a LONG time to dry compared to the ones that were obviously lacquer (they smelled like hairspray!).

stikpusher

Also on some of my kits it has interacted with residue from decal setting/solvent solutions leaving brown tide marks under the top coat that can bot be removed. It has done this ona few of my builds that are around 20 years old now...

I've had this happen as well stik.  But, those kits, like those you mentioned, are also 20 years old or close to it (my how time does fly, huh?) and I can't recall when I switched from Testors Glosscoat to using Future.  At any rate, I am sure the brown discoloration was caused by the decal set that I used.

Gary

Testors lacquer clear coats are lacquers alright. Nothing unclear about it if you read about the product on the Tetors website. (Seriously folks, the manufacturer's website should be the first place you go to find out more info about their products; some manufacturer sites give great information). The product pages tell us it is safe to use over their enamels once they are cured. Their enamel clear coat also has a warning about yellowing.

The whole "never spray lacquer over enamel" is now considered obsolete. There are so many exceptions to the rule that the rule is no longer helpful. _Some_ lacquers may eat through all sorts of paints, but by no means all. Best advice is to test before you spray your model.

Chris

The only problems that I have had with the stuff are these. Over time, their rattle can product tends to yellow with age, giving an amber hue to the finished build that was not there when it was freshly done. There is no smoking in my home so nicotine stainig is out as a cause for this. Also on some of my kits it has interacted with residue from decal setting/solvent solutions leaving brown tide marks under the top coat that can bot be removed. It has done this ona few of my builds that are around 20 years old now...

Well, twenty years ago, the Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat were definitely lacquer products.  Their smell gave them away in that regard.  I never had a problem using them over enamel until I laid on a bit too much over a Monogram Harrier.  The result was a bunch of tiny dimples all over the paint job.  

Gary

Hi - I e-mailed Testors about the newer lacquer clear coats, wondering if they were fully compatible with their enamel paints. For many years I was aware that enamel could be sprayed over lacquer, definitely NOT the reverse, I have seen what results from that, (ugly.) Testors responded with a prompt reply, it is safe to use, maybe they simply call it lacquer because that is a common term for clear coats. What their formula is I don't know, but it does work safely on everything I've sprayed it over, either enamel or acrylic.

I'm left to wonder, is it actually lacquer or is it enamel, or is it a lacquer that is formulated to be safe on enamel? Might be better to just call it "Clear Coat," and not leave customers to be "unclear" about the product. Properly thinned it results in a very good finish, I like it.

Patrick

I airbrush Testor's Dullcoat and Glosscoat over enamels from Floquil,. Humbrol and ModelMaster, and acrylics from Vallejo, Andtrea, Italeri, Citadel and ModelMaster as well as Modelmaster metalizers with no issues. Brushing these on could present a problem, however, but airbrushing and its overpowered cousin rattle cans, present no problems.

I also use Vallejo Acrylic Gloss and Flat clears also,but again the MM laquer works for me

So, is the consensus that it is safe to use the MM lacquer over the MM enamels?  I plan on airbrushing it on.

If there is potential probs. I would pref. to use something else.  What would that be?  Sorry for all the questions but I am really trying to get a grasp of all this "new" stuff.

Thanks

In general I avoid lacquers over enamel, but have never had any problem with Glosscoat, or the Testors bottles of clear gloss lacquer.  I often use the latter for coating areas that will have a decal over it, and never had any compatibility problems.  Not sure  how that works, but it does.

BTW, Testors glosscoat used to be lacquer, then they came out with both lacquer and enamel variants. I did not like the enamel variant, so am glad to see the lacquer version is still available.

No problem,I do it all the time Modelmaster laquer clears over Modelmater Enamels works fine.