What do you use...

What are you talking about Vallejo primers are not sandable??? This is what I use mostly and they sure are sandable. They take longer to cure than most primers but sand out just fine. This is the problem with forums most is opinion or hearsay and not fact based

Thank you Chris for stating the fact you're not looking for a sparring match with dflu78. You and I are in the same boat - trying to learn what works best when cleaning airbrush with certain brand of paints.

MSDS sheets for Testors paints can be found on Testors site. Not sure for other brands. I guess the best way to find out is google it. ie: Tamiya paint MSDS sheet, etc....

dflu78

You've made up your mind and nothing is going to change it, and I'm not going any further out of my way to convince you because it serves me no purpose. I don't have to prove to you that I'm right.

DFLU78,

The last thing I want to do is start a sparring match. I'm sorry if I made you angry, that wasn't my intention. My intention is to learn. I am not asking you to prove me wrong, nor have I made up my mind on this. I am simply asking for more information.

From my perspective, I have read several statements on different forums that contradict each other (it happens with alarming frequency). Since all of the sources are pretty much anonymous to me, how do I figure out which one is right? I can't just pick one arbitrarily. Thus, I need more information so I can decide. I tried to find out myself, but this time I could not find any further information on it. So all I am doing is asking for help in deciding. An MSDS sheet or some sort of written statement from the company would suffice. But I can't find any. Please help me.

I like to learn about this hobby, and I like to spread that knowledge. The last thing I want to do is spread misinformation. This is especially true in a forum targeted at beginners. I would really like to know if Vallejo is the same paint as AKI. It's important to know. It's not about cleaning the paint, it's about whether a modeler can trust one brand when they've already trusted the other, or whether a modeler should bother trying one brand if they dislike the other.

I do like to argue; it's in my nature (maybe it's a flaw). Please help me answer the question so I can go argue with those other guys. :-)

Chris

and the Manufacturer of those three paint lines use a formula for each that is close enough that all three can use the same thinner from AK (#712)

the two polyurethanes are both from outside of the regular paint lines for each company, though. And they don't share a formula with any of the three acrylic paint lines, or with each other

one other test that I learned from an old FSM user named Triarious (sp) is that some acrylics are so close in formula that they are almost considered the same,,,,,,as in mixing Model Master and PollyScale to create a missing color

you can do that same mixing with Vallejo, AK and Italeri

to quote an old logic axiom "a difference that makes no difference IS no difference"

I hope this helps in some way

Rex

ps,,,,,,,the Medea Cleaner works equally well on all 10 Acrylic paints I have so far, but I haven't bought XtraColour or MisterKit paints yet.

I use both AK primers and Vallejo primers and the difference is like night and day.  For example, dried Vallejo primers do not dissolve in IPA and Windex, whereas AK primers do.  Another example, Vallejo primers are not sandable whereas AK primers are.  I haven't used AK acrylic paint, so I can't comment on it.

All I know based on threads at other modeling sites is Vallejo manufactures AK & Italeri paints.

Hold on, let's not turn this into a sparring match. LOL!

You are free to believe what you want. Just because you're ignorant of something doesn't make it any less true. The information is out there. It's no a secret. Not everyone keeps up with industry insider information like this. I get that.  You've made up your mind and nothing is going to change it, and I'm not going any further out of my way to convince you because it serves me no purpose. I don't have to prove to you that I'm right.

MSDSs are not hard to find...if you really want to. But I think you're just more interested in arguing than learning anything.

Just consider that FSM and it's forum are not the only source of information on the hobby out there. In fact...they are targeted at beginners...expand your online presence in the hobby and you will find there are much better sources of information out there.

Chris;

That was the point I was trying to give to the gentleman who was asking about this, as a manufacturer would be completely foolish to supply a thinner/cleaner for their own brand of paint that didn't work well.  I was watching some stuff on YouTube earlier around the whole who makes the Italeri acrylic line of paints.  I have never tried them, but it was interesting to see all the comparisons.  I try to go as "mild" as possible with all the solvents and cleaners especially since lacquer thinner has such an odor.

There are many ways to clean and thin as we have all talked about so each person can find what works best for them:)

John

For acrylics I use plan old water, that and a brush to clean it with does a good job. I then use a liquid reamer to get rid of any stubborn deposits. For enamels I use white spirits followed by the same reamer.

dflu78

It's pretty common knowledge that AK was a collaboration between Vallejo and Mig Jimenez...not at all rumors. It's also pretty common knowledge that the paints are identical. As is Italeri paint, which is just relabeled Vallejo FWIW.

migjimenez.blogspot.com

I tend to doubt "common knowledge" that doesn't have a reliable source, especially when it is contrary to my personal experience. And especially when we hear rumors that contradict each other. Which one should we believe?

Why assume that two paints are identical if they come from the same manufacturer? Paint makers are capable of making a variety of paint. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just need a reliable source, such as an MSDS sheet from AK Interactive to compare to those from Acrylicos Vallejo.

I've gotten off the original topic of this thread. There are plenty of good answers to the original question, but I use windex or water to flush out acrylics, then follow up with lacquer thinner.

Chris

I spray Clorox Green Works natural glass cleaner (a Blue liquid, lol), followed by distilled water. (our water is veryyy limey)

Then, after I am sure I don't see any color in the spray anymore, I shoot a  teaspoon of

Medea Airbrush Cleaner through. I keep the Medea in mind for any time I think I have a nearly dry paint film in the cup or brush passages, because its other use is to cut dried paint out of a brush. (just in case)

I know I pay more now for specialized thinners, cleaners and waters,,,,,,,,,but, my old lacquer thinner habit would get the bench kicked outside, and she wants me to model "nearby" from now on.

Rex

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

dflu78 - the question is about what to clean with.

Which I addressed if you care to read. I'm sorry. It slightly boggles my mind that people think you need brand specific cleaners for paint. You're just wasting money, but by all means have at it. 

Simple version: lacquer thinner will clean everything. If you're sticking with acrylics and don't want to use harsh chemicals: WINDEX AND ALCOHOL 

I use 8 different paint brands frequently and I clean it all with lacquer thinner or windex. 

I think you are going to find more opinions than you can sort through, and I am not saying any of them are not correct.  When I got back into this about 3 years ago, I stayed with what the manufacturers of the paints said to use and then experimented from there.  Clean Tamiya with Tamiya and Testors with Testors.  I think Vallejo makes a cleaner for the AB also.

John

dflu78 - the question is about what to clean with.

dflu78

Chrisk-k

I use my Iwata ABs to shoot Tamiya & AK acrylics.  They can be easily cleaned with 91% IPA.  No need to use lacquer thinner.  

I occasionally use my Paasche H to spray Vallejo acrylics.  In my experience, only lacquer thinner completely cleans Vallejo stuff.  

 

Highly interesting considering AK paints are identical to Vallejo in formulation.

I wasn't clear about my use of AK.  I use AK acrylic primers, which is totally different from Vallejo acrylic primers.

It's pretty common knowledge that AK was a collaboration between Vallejo and Mig Jimenez...not at all rumors. It's also pretty common knowledge that the paints are identical. As is Italeri paint, which is just relabeled Vallejo FWIW.

migjimenez.blogspot.com

dflu78

Highly interesting considering AK paints are identical to Vallejo in formulation.

I've heard that rumor, too. But I don't know if it's true. The Mr. Vallejo of AK Interactive is not associated with Vallejo paints. But even if Vallejo does in fact manufacture the AK paint, they seem to behave quite differently in my experience. This would appear to indicate a difference in formulation.  Of course, I can't prove it because neither company is very open about the ingredients of their paint. Do you have any reliable information?

Chris

I forgot to mention windshield washer fluid. It is not the same as Windex...in any way other than being blue...but it has glycol and methanol which slows drying time and increases flow. It can be used to thin most all acrylics. It's useless as a cleaner...unless you really just want to use a lot more than necessary and work harder.

I don't understand if you are asking what to thin the paint with or clean it with.

You don't need 14 different cleaners for 14 different kinds of paint. If you are ONLY spraying acrylics all you need is 91% alcohol, Windex, and water. Alcohol will clean everything EXCEPT Vallajo type paints (Vallejo -all lines, Italeri, AK, and AMMO). For those you can clean with WIndex.

However, if you have the ventilation just get some lacquer thinner from the hardware store or Wal-Mart. It cleans everything with a fraction of the effort.

As for thinning:

Tamiya: yes you can thin with Alcohol, but it lacks the retarder that their own thinner has, so paint is going to dry in your AB tip and it will be chalky on the models surface. You can make it work, but adding some retarder from the art supply store will help.

The Vallejo type paints are junk for airbrushing....except the Model Air line. MA can be sprayed straight from the bottle but only for general coverage. You aren't going to be doing delicate German camo with it. To thin the Valleo types your best bet is Future in my experience. But I will not spray those unless I absolutely have to. They are way too finicky.

Model Master Acryl is another lousy paint. It sprays ok, but it is a fragile as paint comes. It will strip off from under tape 9/10 times.

Tamiya (and Mr. Hobby Aqueous if you are outside of the US) are by far the best acrylics out there. The problem with Tamiya is that they don't make many specific color matches.

That being said, if you have the setup to do it (proper ventalation etc), I recommend enamels and lacquers. I use MM enamel and Mr. Color almost exclusively now. I thin them both with lacquer thinner. If I need to do delicate work I use Mr. Color Leveling thinner (also the best thinner for Tamiya acrylic).

For between colors,enamels I use mineral spirits,the big jug from the hardware store,acrylics I just use tap water.

every once in awhile,I use one of those ultrasonic jewlery cleaners

I use windshield wiper fluid.  Pretty much the same thing as your regular Windex, but cheaper.  I only spray acrylics right now (not much ventilation in the basement), and use a Testors Aztec.  The windshield wiper fluid has done me well so far, but some of these other suggestions are in my "Notes" book now!  Thanks all!

Eagle90

Chrisk-k

I use my Iwata ABs to shoot Tamiya & AK acrylics.  They can be easily cleaned with 91% IPA.  No need to use lacquer thinner.  

I occasionally use my Paasche H to spray Vallejo acrylics.  In my experience, only lacquer thinner completely cleans Vallejo stuff.  

Highly interesting considering AK paints are identical to Vallejo in formulation.

I use my Iwata ABs to shoot Tamiya & AK acrylics.  They can be easily cleaned with 91% IPA.  No need to use lacquer thinner.  

I occasionally use my Paasche H to spray Vallejo acrylics.  In my experience, only lacquer thinner completely cleans Vallejo stuff.  

The reason I'm asking is I use Testors Universal thinner for acrylics since I use mostly Model Master acrylics anyways. Tamiya is I want to try but want to double check with using what to clean. Although I did buy some Tamiya thinner in the big jar for that (assuming that's what to use).

I always take apart my AB and clean between paint colors. I don't work much with Valljeo paint but I have yet use it. I currently have Aged White (or something like that).

Question - when using alcohol for cleaning Tamiya acrylics, does it matter what % alcohol it is? I know some are 76%, 90%, well you get the picture.

Now I'm getting really confused. Like I said, I use Testors Universal Acrylic thinner for my acrylic paint. Have used it with good results and am happy with it.

I guess I should take pilotjohn's advice as follows: (Correct me if I'm getting this right)

Model Master Acrylic - keep using what I've always been using (Testors Universal thinner for Acrylics)

Tamiya Acrylics - alcohol or Tamiya thinner. Would Universal Acrylic thinner work just as well?

Vallejo -  Universal Acrylic thinner or lacquer thinner. Would either be fine?

Enamels - Testors thinner for enamels (that's a given).

Also, regardless of what I use for cleaning the AB, is it well worth it to get lacquer thinner just to use every now and then?

I bought the 1 gallon container of Klean Strip from The Home Depot.  It lasts for a long time.

Lacquer thinner. Windex and alcohol and the like will work to a certain extent on various paints, but you will end up having issues at some point if all you do is shoot that through them and don't do through break down cleaning once in a while.

Want to have a really bad day? Try cleaning Vallejo type paints with alcohol. Lacquer thinner cuts through everything without much trouble.

Plain cheap lacquer thinner from Home Depot/Lowes's. It will dissolve even dried caked up acrylics.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Windex & water mix? Or either?

I use Windex to clean the Tamiya paint out of the AB and then I use water to clean out the Windex and rinse off the AB.

I should add that when I spray Future, I do use Windex to clean.  I read where others do that and it works for me so I never bothered to try cleaning it another way for that.  I still use the water steps.

John