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Respirator Question

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  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Respirator Question
Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 7:09 AM
I finally decided it would be a good idea to get and use a respirator if I am going to continue to build models, so I did that Saturday. This being my first real experience with them, I have a question, well actually two.

The resiprator I got is a 3M 6000 series. It came with two pair of particle filters and one pair of organic vapor canisters. I only installed one pair of the particle filters (one filter on each side), however I am wondering if I should have put two on each side (that was actually the first question). The instructions are for a dozen different models, in a half dozen languages, and with pictures about the size of a postage stamp.

Next, I was painting some enamel last night and while I could not smell the odor of enamel paint I could still smell "Something". I'm not sure how to describe that "Something" other than it was a somewhat pungent odor that was not very strong, just noticeable. It wasn't bad, I guess I just expected to smell nothing. Is that normal or just because the vapor canisters are still new? Or is there possibly a problem with the vapor canisters?

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 7:16 AM
Scott,

Did you have the organic vapor cartridges in the respirator when you smelled the paint or was it the the regular dust cartridges?
The dust cartridges are useless for vapors as they don't contain any charcoal.

I'll let our resident expert Gip help you out more as this is his area of expertise.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 8:14 AM
Mike,

I had the organic vapor cartridges in, but it wasn't really a paint smell. Hard to describe what it smelled like. I just started getting a whiff of "Something" pungent but it didn't smell like paint. I only smelled it when I was real close to where I was spraying (i.e. looking closely at the parts to make sure I got good coverage in the crevices) so I'm pretty sure it was coming FROM the paint, it just didn't smell like the paint normally does.

Later ... I just happened to think that what I was smelling smelled somewhat like denatured alcohol. I sort of remember that smell from my high school chemistry days, and that's roughly similar to what I was smelling.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 10:25 AM
Scott,
You've got a good respirator in the 3M line. We've had a little experience with what you're smelling, except what we experienced was something akin to an ammonia-type odor, and we experienced it with the MSA brand. The manufacturer assured us there was no problem, and was simply a reaction of the cartridge with moisture in the air. We noticed this on a daily basis during a 2 year PCB building decontamination project. No ill effects were noted by any of the team members involved. If you are bothered by the smell, or if it gets worse, I would recommend getting some newer cartridges. Could be that the reaction is more prevalent in older products.

The other problem may be that you are actually smelling the vapors in the thinner or the paint you are using. First, make sure the cartridges are seated well in the cartridge mounts, and that the rubber seat rings are properly installed. Run your finger around the ring and feel for any grit or other particulate matter that could be interfering with the seal. Next, check both the inhalation and exhalation valves to ensure they are properly seated and functioning on their mounts. The valves should be very flexible, and free of any tears or cracks.

Now put the thing on. Attach the neck strap first, then bring the respirator up and over your face and put the head strap in place. Make sure you have a snug fit. If you have a beard or other facial hair that may interfere with the face-to-facepiece seal, you will probably get a little leakage in the mask and odors may be discernible. Facial hair will diminish the effectiveness of a respirator.

OK, now that you have the respirator fit to your face like you want it, cover the cartridges with your hands, or a small plastic bag in each hand if your hands are too small, and breathe in. The respirator should collapse on your face. Hold your breath for 10 seconds. If you have a good fit, the respirator will remain collapsed. If not, you have a leak. This is called a negative pressure fit check. Next, cover the exhalation valve with your hand and breathe out slightly, but not enough to break the seal. The respirator should expand on your face. If air escapes, then you have a leak. This is called the positive pressure fit check. If you notice a leak while performing either test, readjust the respirator, and recheck. While it sounds involved, it really isn't, and should be done every time you put the respirator on. Otherwise, you spent $20 for a false sense of security.

If you still can't get a good fit, then you may have the wrong mask size. Masks come in S, M, and L.

Once you get it all together, try this: Get some fingernail polish remover and dip a q-tip in it. With your eyes closed and breathing through your nose, run the q-tip around the perimeter of the facepiece, paying special attention to the facepiece-to-face seal area. This is called a qualitative fit check. If you can detect the smell of dilute acetone, you have a leak. Re-fit and try again. Typically, if you have a good negative/positive fit check, you'll also have a good qualitative fit check. If you can smell the acetone and have a good fit check, the cartridges may need to be replaced. Normally, this check is done with n-amyl acetate, which can be found at some drug stores. I recommend trying it with nail polish remover because it's readily available, the acetone is dilute, and n-amyl acetate (banana oil) may not be available everywhere.

Lastly, only one pair of prefilters go on at a time. The prefilter is used to trap particulates only.

If none of the above work for you, let us know, and we'll try something else.

Hope this helps.
Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 10:44 AM
Thanks, Gip. I appreciate the input and all the great information.

The odor isn't bad, not even annoying, it just made me curious because I didn't really expect it.

I did do a positive and negative pressure test, and I don't havea beard, so I feel like everything was sealed up. I didn't try the acetone test but I will this evening.

If it gets any worse I'll try some new cartridges. These were in sealed package and I've been keeping them in Zip-Loc bags so they are probably OK, but who knows.

Thanks again.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 10:49 AM
Glad to know I was able to help. Also glad to know the odor is minimal and isn't an annoyance for you. If you experience any changes, let me know.

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 9:46 PM
Scott,

I think I know what smell you are talking about as my MSA Comfo Elite mask has that odor with new vapor cartridges. It is a strange smell with mine and is hard to compare to anything else. All I know is that lacquer thinner does not smell when I spray it which is a good thing. Wink [;)]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, March 2, 2004 9:50 PM
QUOTE:
I think I know what smell you are talking about as my MSA Comfo Elite mask has that odor with new vapor cartridges. It is a strange smell with mine and is hard to compare to anything else. All I know is that lacquer thinner does not smell when I spray it which is a good thing. Wink [;)]

Yep, that's the smell Big Smile [:D] I don't really know what to compare it to; denatured alky, ammonia-like, either one works. Maybe it will go away after a while as the cartridges age. Wish I had done this back when I was spraying R/C bodies with laquer. That stuff is evil.

Thansk for the help guys.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
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