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Paint Lifting

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  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Paint Lifting
Posted by Aggieman on Thursday, April 14, 2016 11:27 PM

I am beyond frustrated tonight.  I am doing a Revell 1/32 Heinkel He 111 P-1 in the standard early war splinter scheme of RLM65, RLM70 and RLM71.  The photos should convey the leve of frustration that I am feeling right now.

The paint is Model Master Acryl.  I am using Tamiya tape to mask the hard-edges of the splinter scheme.  When I first put down the RLM65 on the underside, I mis-aligned the mask along the fuselage underside, pulled it up carefully to re-align and noticed that some of the paint had pulled up.  After I repainted, I let it sit for a couple of days to cure (I applied a generous coat of Future over the paint to act as a sealant and protect the paint from the masking material).  During that time I determined that there seems to be a lot of tackiness to this Tamiya tape.  I've never had an issue with Tamiya tape with one exception - my most recent build, another Revell kit, a P-39D.  For the next masking session, I deliberately put the tape on my shirt and pulled it off several times to remove some of the tackiness.

I typically wash all the parts in warm, soapy water prior to beginning construction.  I did that on both the P-39 and the He111.  While I don't recall on the P-39, I do know that I did not apply a primer coat to the He111.

Any one have an ideas what might be causing this?  Could it be old paint?  Lack of prime coat?  Tape too tacky?  Any suggestions on how to mask for these German schemes?  I considered cutting paper masks but could not come up with a good way to adhering the paper to the plastic without using tape.  I also tried wall tack and Post-It Notes.  The Post-It Notes surprising lifted paint as well.  The wall tack was just an attempt to see if it would also lift paint - it did not.  I suppose I could use wall tack to secure paper masks but it seems that the paper will not be flush with the plastic, which I think it will need to be to get the hard-edge.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, April 15, 2016 12:06 AM

Sorry for your frustration. Been there.

Model Master acryl isn't going to adhere well enough to mask without a good primer, I'm sorry to say. I'm not so sure any acrylic will, but MM seems to have a tad bit of a reputation for this.

Just like you and so many others, I found this out the hard way.

And IMO it's always a good idea to de-tack masking tape, even Tamiya.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, April 15, 2016 12:26 AM

Ah yes, how to solve it. Bondo rule #3: (learned from my friend Bondoman)

Number one, look at the underside of the paint fragments attached to the tape.

Primer color?

If so, the primer failed to adhere.

Paint color? Didn't adhere to the primer. but this is super rare.

Didn't use primer?

I always do, even on the sprue as a first step.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Friday, April 15, 2016 5:29 AM

I too had a recent problem with MM acrylics. Sanded,washed and primed before hand,paint kept lifting. I bought the paint new,it wasn't lying around. Went back to Tamiya.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, April 15, 2016 6:44 AM

As soon as I read the thread tittle I said to myself it has to be Acryl paint. You have to use an enamel based primer to make that junky paint stick. The solvent type paint/primer will give the Acryl some bite into the surface.

I used the MM Acryl primer one time and the Acryl paint and primer lifted when I removed the masking tape, never again!

On the other hand, Tamiya acrilics stick to the surface without a primer and spray way smoother thru the AB than the Acryl paint.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Friday, April 15, 2016 8:56 AM

My first thought was you didn't use primer. From the photos, I can tell from where the tape peeled off the paint. So the issue isn't Tamiya tape. The lack of primer is.

I use MM acrylics exclusively and never had issues of acrylics peeling off. That's because I use Rustoleum brand primer as a base coat.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Friday, April 15, 2016 10:50 AM

["BlackSheepTwoOneFour"]I use MM acrylics exclusively and never had issues of acrylics peeling off. That's because I use Rustoleum brand primer as a base coat.[/quote]


Duly noted.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Posted by Aggieman on Friday, April 15, 2016 2:34 PM

Thank you for everyone's responses.  This is probably something I knew about Acryl paint but had just forgotten, so lesson [re]learned.  Next time PRIME!!!!!

I do really like Tamiya's paints.  They go on real well, I agree, but I find having to mix a couple of them to get a color like, say, RAF Middlestone, to be problematic at best.  

So I was able to repair the paint today on the one-eleven.  I did not use any tape to mask; instead I used small pieces of cardboard to block certain areas while repairing the pulled-up paint.  This was tedious but it worked pretty well.  I did have to re-design some of the splinter scheme to manage this technique, but it wasn't major.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Friday, April 15, 2016 3:54 PM

Very nice recovery, Aggieman! For touch-ups like you performed, I will sometimes use post-it notes. They are not as sticky as tape, and hopefully less tedious as cardboard.

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • From: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posted by iSteve on Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:07 AM

How do you eliminate the peel mark when re-painting the damaged area? I've been using 1000 and 1500 grit sand paper to blend in the spot but still end up with a patch mark on visible on the surface texture, not to mention when sanding more paint comes off.

Desparately looking for suggestions!

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Posted by Aggieman on Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:39 AM

When I did the re-painting, I used small pieces of cardboard rather than tape to mask. I did not press the cardboard firmly in place and lightened air pressure through my airbrush to 10psi and did not see any paint ridges develop. There were a couple of these ridges from the initial paint job that I rubbed away with 3500 and even 12000 grit sanding pads.

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