acrylics non-toxic?

QUOTE: He is the PhD in the family and I am the black sheep

Mike, you are most definitely NOT a black sheep! You airbrush knowledge is second to none, and I for one appreciate your wealth of knowledge of the subject. Oh, and by the way, I'm not really a PhD, unless you mean that PhD stands for "Piled Higher and Deeper". Then I would qualify hands down.

Gip Winecoff

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337 Heres my 3 cents. I never did get any brain damage from models, although i think the lacquor based putty's fsced something. il contine later

I think you are right........I didn't understand a word you said with that spelling.

Mike

Heres my 3 cents.

In Large enough doses, anything can be lethal. If you eat too many banana's, you will have a stomach ache. If you are exposed to weapons grade uranium, you will live a shorter life.

I never did get any brain damage from models, although i think the lacquor based putty's fsced something. il contine later

QUOTE: I am humbled by your confidence in me Scott but I am not in the same league with my brother Gip. He is the PhD in the family and I am the black sheep.

Greg Boyington was a "Black Sheep" to, and he did pretty well Had to say that since I'm in the middle of reading his book again for the second time. First time was about 25 years ago.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity Yeah! And I bet the next thing he's gonna say is that I shouldn't smoke either!

I hear you Scott. What is wrong with smoking in a room filled with lacquer fumes?

QUOTE: Between you on chemistry and Mike on airbrushing how could we possibly go wrong.

I am humbled by your confidence in me Scott but I am not in the same league with my brother Gip. He is the PhD in the family and I am the black sheep.


Mike

Yeah! And I bet the next thing he's gonna say is that I shouldn't smoke either!

Don't breathe anything toxic, don't lick the paint brushes, don't taste the glue. They try and take the fun out of everything!

Just kidding Gip. As always I really appreciate your insights. Between you on chemistry and Mike on airbrushing how could we possibly go wrong.

Thanks guys!

Oh GREAT! Does that mean I have to stop taking sips of the stuff whenever I get a little thirsty in my workroom?!?!?

Hey when did these little green men show up?

Eric

Just thought I'd chime in...
An old Greek dude named Paracelsus once said that everything is toxic; it all depends on the dose. Exposure is based upon two basic factors, the frequency (how often) and duration (how long) of the task. Other factors are also considered contributory; they include such things as ingredients and concentration of the material you're working with, how much is in use, how it's being used (brushing vs. spraying), distance from the source, available controls such as ventilation or barriers, and any protective devices in use, such as a respirator. There are other considerations as well such as personal susceptibilities (like multiple chemical senstitivity), or propensities toward such things as allergies, or even pre-existing medical conditions such as asthma.

All of the posts in this thread have pretty much nailed the topic discussion. Basically, even though a material may be not be considered toxic or hazardous, caution should still be exercised and proper procedures followed for how the material should be used to avoid the potential for overexposures to occur. One of the most misleading things I have ever seen are the words "environmentally safe". Simply because a material is safe for the environment doesn't necessarily mean it's non-hazardous to humans. I have seen individuals overcome by environmentally safe organic vapors, and have to be taken to local clinics for observation. And the label also said the material was flammable...

Be careful with acrylics. While their RELATIVE hazards may be somewhat less than enamels (and then there are acrylic enamels), many contain alcohols and others may contain certain glycol ethers or possibly their associated acetates. Alcohols are toxic in their own right. OSHA has established a 15 min. short term exposure limit (STEL) for both isopropyl alcohol and methyl alcohol (methanol). And both are flammable. BTW, the flames from alcohol fires are practically invisible, so be overly careful. Glycol ethers and ether acetates can affect the hematopoietic (blood-based) systems of the body. (In addition, be wary of the ingredients in pigments, particularly the interior greens, zinc chromates, and some yellows used in the aircraft line of paints. I admit not having seen any MSDSs from model paint companies, but until I know for certain I will assume any of these materials to contain chrome-based pigments and take appropriate precautions. Zinc chromate as well as other hexavalent chrome compounds (Cr +6) are now confirmed human carcinogens (lung).

Above all, remember that the use of common sense is authorized. Typically, we in the modeling community spray (I use spray since that tends to typically carry the highest hazard potential) in very small quantities for fairly limited periods of time at any sitting. IMHO, I think that our overall potential for overexposures (that amount that exceeds the body's ability to metabolize and detoxify) is minimal.

I do, however, think that all bets are off when you pull out the spray can for that 1/16 King Big Track, or that 1/192 USS Neversail--but that's another thread...

I've pretty much rambled here. Hope this helps someone.
Gip Winecoff

The non-toxic rating on those paints, ASTM-4236 means that they are below limits that are considered health risks in most situations. You'll find the same rating on crayons and other materials for children. I got the MSDS on testors non-toxics and some pigments used are considered carcinogens. I assume they are still considered n-toxic because small ammoounts and normal use does not mean ingestion or particulate inhalation.Gip is the best source for this and hopefully he's out there right now reading this.
ALWAYS PROTECT YOURSELF...Do I sound extreme? I spent two months in NYU medical center when I was 21 to have an eight inch tumor removed from my spinal cord. Had to learn how to walk all over again and completely wiped out my career. All due to overexposure to a lot of the chemicals used in model making and the hubris of a teenager that it won't effect me.
You can get a 3M 6000 series Organic Vapor respirator online for about $17. replacement cartridges around $8.
OK, off my soapbox.

Yeah you should treat paints as being toxic no matter what. It's always a good idea being safe than sorry. Remember every bit you sniff will accumlate. Your health is like a savings account. You keep withdrawing form the account until you end up with 0 balance.

Having said that, I always sniff paint just to know that it's good. If I can't smell it then I think the paint is bad.

No paint is 100% non toxic.

Acrylic paint is plastic in a liquid suspension, that is to say when it is cured you have put a coating of plastic on whatever you put it on (that includes the inside of your lungs if you aren't careful). That was one of the first things we were taught in art school.

Water based or not, acrylics should be treated with similar care as any other paint. Common sense will take you a long way here:

1. Regardless of the type of paint, if you are spraying it either by airbrush or rattle can, a good two stage respirator mask can be a life saving investment. They can look a bit expensive at first, but not nearly as expensive as say a lung transplant or the rest of your life on medical oxygen.

2. Good ventilation is also a must when spraying, if you don't have a spray booth, try to find a spot outdoors.

3. Some people have a habit of "sharpening" the tip of their paint brush with their mouth. DON'T DO THAT!!! The pigments, emulsion agents and binding agents in ALL paints (including those so called "non toxic" acrylics) can do some severe damage to many of your body's systems.

4. Always use the recommended thinner for the paint. Some thinners and paints are incommpatible to the point of giving off noxious fumes that can cause all sorts of nasty health problems and even death. Not just any thinner will do for any paint.

Thats just a few guidelines that will keep you safe if you parctice them.

I liken using paints to using firearms:

Just as you should treat every gun with due respect a loaded one, you should also treat all paint with the respect you would known toxic paint.

Polyscale and Model Master Acrylics are water based and labeled non toxic. Gunze and Tamiya are alcohol based and should be considered toxic. My sugestion is to treat all paints as toxic so have good ventilation and wear a respirator when airbrushing and you will not have to worry.

Acrylics are not as bad to breathe as something like urethanes, lacquers and enamels, but they are far from safe to inhale.
Your lungs were designed to inhale air only, not particles of plastic which is what acrylics are.
How about another lesson here Gip?

Mike