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enamel over lacquer?

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  • Member since
    March, 2016
enamel over lacquer?
Posted by ardvark002 on Friday, March 24, 2017 7:22 PM

Hi all, I've heard lacquer over enamel ok. Enamel over lacquer no. I wish to put MM classic white over MM aluminum plate metalizer.Do you think I will have any problems?  Thanks,  Aardvark

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Friday, March 24, 2017 7:48 PM

I believe the issue with that application will be the fragility of the metalizer if you attempt to mask it. It is better to paint the enamels first, mask those areas, then apply the metalizer. 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Friday, March 24, 2017 8:16 PM

mississippivol

I believe the issue with that application will be the fragility of the metalizer if you attempt to mask it. It is better to paint the enamels first, mask those areas, then apply the metalizer. 

That being said, the normal order when using dissimilar paints is to apply a cooler paint over a hotter one.

ie. acrylic over enamel over lacquer

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, March 24, 2017 8:28 PM

I've painted MM enamel over MM Metalizer with no ill effects seen. Olive Drab and Blue over Buffable Aluminum   to be precise. I just used parafilm to mask and all came out fine.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Friday, March 24, 2017 9:44 PM

ardvark002

Hi all, I've heard lacquer over enamel ok. Enamel over lacquer no. I wish to put MM classic white over MM aluminum plate metalizer.Do you think I will have any problems?  Thanks,  Aardvark

 

Aardvark - For a long time I've been aware that the reverse is considered true, always enamel over lacquer. I have mistakenly tried lacquer over enamel once, it ruined the enamel by wrinkling it up, looked sort of like a cracked dry lake surface.

Lacquer is a fairly strong substance, that's why it can actually attack and wrinkle bare plastic when airbrushed over. Years ago when using Floquil paints it was required to use their barrier over the plastic, then you could spray the hotter paint and the plastic was safe.

Patrick

  • Member since
    March, 2016
Posted by ardvark002 on Friday, March 24, 2017 9:46 PM
Thanks for your feed back.I put the metalizer over Alclad grey primer.I'll try a piece of masking tape in a not seen place and see if it peels, hope not. thnx again Aardvark
  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, March 24, 2017 10:25 PM

Be careful spraying Model Master Metallizers over primer. Their instructions call for bare plastic so that the paint can etch the surface for better adhesion. It can be a really delicate finish to begin with, so experiment with scrap materials before commiting to the model if you're going to use a primer or barrier coat over the plastic before you base coat.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Northern New Jersey
Posted by Tojo72 on Saturday, March 25, 2017 4:10 AM
Metalizer also has a sealer,might be worth looking at,but go easy with the tape,try to take a lot of the tack off of it before applying,I I stick it to the fridge and pull it off a few times to loose some of the stickiness,also Post-it notes also can be used to mask it.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:01 AM

It depends on the lacquer.  In most cases you can put enamel over lacquers, but putting laquers over enamel is problematic.  To complicate issues, there is now acrylic lacquer!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:36 AM

Some of this will just be a repeat of the others, but here goes...

As I've mentioned before, I use MM enamels and metalizers exclusively. I also use Minwax clear gloss lacquer exclusively for my gloss coats.

Lacquer over enamel...if the lacquer goes on too thick, too quick, it WILL wrinkle up the underlying paint. I go with a couple mist coats with a few minutes of drying time (dry to the touch), then come back with a heavier coat...never had an issue this way.

Enamel over lacquer...color over the gloss: I've never had a problem.(lacquer being the clear gloos)

In dealing with a metalizer finish...I'll paint the whole airframe starting with a darker base (usually "magnisium") on bare plastic. After that, I'll "marble" a lighter shade (one of the "aluminum" shades), leaving just a little bit of the magnisium still showing(mainly along the panel lines). Then I'll do the same with another shade on a few picked out panels. Once satisfied with the NMF, I seal it with the Minwax gloss lacquer. This helps a LOT when masking for your colors (tail bands, engine cowls, etc.). I still de-tack the tape (Tamiya) by sticking it to the palm of my hand a couple times. When you're done with your colors, peel the tape slowly and gently. Spray another gloss over the colors, decal, gloss over the decals and proceed with weathering. Personally, I don't like anything glossy looking, so I'll put down a good dull coat over everything. For the NMF areas, I'll buff the dull coat with a soft-ish cloth (denim works well), just enough to give the "metal" a little sheen.

Side note..I used to use the Metalizer sealer, which is just gloss lacquer. Bought a quart of Minwax for about the price of two of the little metalizer sealer bottles. I thin it about 50/50 with store brand lacquer thinner. I've done at least 200 builds since switching to the Minwax, and I still have at least 1/2 a quart left. Way, WAY cheaper!!! For the same price, using the "special" metalizer sealer, I would have gotten maybe 5 builds glossed.

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