I finally sprayed this morning...

fotofrank

Yesterday I was at the hobby shop and picked up two bottles of Tamiya Surface Primer. I also was going to get a bottle of the Tamiya Lacquer Thinner but the young fellow behind the counter nixed that. He recommended Mr. Color Leveling Thinner, which I bought. This morning was the moment of truth. I mixed the primer and thinner 1/1 in the airbrush jar, hooked it up and began practicing. I first sprayed on a cardboard box for a little bit to adjust the spray pattern. Next, I shot primer onto a wing from an old AMT Staggerwing kit that has been laying around. Spraying light layers, I gradually built up a nice even coverage. The primer certainly appears to be dry and I'm sure it is. Later I'm going to test one of my Model Master colors over the primer. Should I let the primer cure over night before I try the color? I also want to try to mask the color with painter's tape. Last but not least, I shot some Iwata airbrush cleaner through the brush, cleaned the jar and the medicine dropper. Now what do I do with the airbrush cleaner fluid? It's such a small quantity, can it go down the sink? Should I keep the used cleaner and the little bits of unused paint in a separate container to be disposed of or recycled later?

 

Hi, regarding the primer coat, an overnight dry time will certainly be OK.

When you say airbrush jar, is your AB a siphon feed with glass jar for paint, or a gravity feed with metal cup on top? And just spraying a rinse through the AB, won't sufficiently remove all paint residue at the forward end of it. I suggest removing the needle, nozzle and tip, for a good manual cleaning with gentle objects like cotton swabs and small brushes.

Good practice to avoid pouring residue down sink, saving in container and disposing as hazardous waste is easy for me, center is close by for drop off. Just 1 or 2 trips a year takes care of my disposal  needs.

Painters tape could be a bit aggressive for removal and cause lifting. Mainly I rely on Tamiya tape, but have used the blue tape a few times and not had many issues with damage to finish. I hope Don Wheeler will stop by, he has lot's of info he could pass along.

Good luck with spraying the paint later.

Patrick

Patrick, thanks for your input. I really do appreciate it. My airbrush is a Badger 200 Detail and it's a siphon feed. I had a Badger 200 some forty years ago when I was last in the hobby.

As for manual cleaning, I have some Q-Tips and brushes, I need to get some pipe cleaners to clean the tube in the paint jar. I used the Mr. Color thinner and the Iwata Airbrush Cleaner to clean the brush after I sprayed today. That stuff is going to used up fast, I think.

For the part I painted earlier today, I think the pressure was set too low (15-20 lbs) and I held the brush too far from the wing so the primer was drying somewhat before hitting the wing. The surface isn't real smooth like I wanted. When I put color over the primer later, the roughness of the primer really showed through. I'll try another piece tomorrow and increase the pressure somewhat to see if I get a smoother finish.

I will definitely get a container to keep the excess material in prior to disposal. The hazardous waste disposal is about twenty minutes from the house.

I need to get some Tamiya masking tape then in various widths, I guess. About the only thing I'll be masking is anti-glare panels on Mustangs and a T-6. Nothing very extreme at all. BTW: I have Don's Airbrush Tips bookmarked. I need to go read some more of his information.

Thanks again for your input, Patrick

You'll have the hang of it in no time. Sounds like you're doing pretty well now. That primer will dry very quickly, I wouldn't worry about shooting color over it. Waiting won't hurt but I'd give it an hour or two and go for it. Which you evidently did. :-)  Good for you.

I'd consider buying some cheap lacquer thinner for cleaning and save the Mr Color for painting. You can thin with it too if needed. And yeh, use an old jar or can with a tight sealing lid for waste. I'll confess to dumping a small quantity down the drain but really shouldn't. 

Have fun. If still drying too quickly,  try adding a little more thinner. 

Thanks, wingman. Off to the hardware store again tomorrow.

Sometimes I feel like I'm spending money and not getting much done...

fotofrank

Thanks, wingman. Off to the hardware store again tomorrow.

Sometimes I feel like I'm spending money and not getting much done...

 

I know that feeling.  Gee, I think I will start this kit.  I have so many paints, I must have the right colors.  Umm, no I don't.  Let's just look through the Micro-Mark catalogue...oh there are at least 3 tools I "must" have.  Some flow improver would be a good idea so I get less tip dry.  etc. etc.  And I have not even opened the kit yet.  LOL.

Paints are a constant.  I am hoping the tools last a long time.

Happy modelling!

D

PS Lacquer thinner may be saving my airbrushes.  Was shocked at how much paint was left over after using just airbrush cleaners.

Yeah, headed to Home Depot to get a pint of lacquer thinner and then take my brush apart for a cleaning.

fotofrank

Patrick, thanks for your input. I really do appreciate it. My airbrush is a Badger 200 Detail and it's a siphon feed. I had a Badger 200 some forty years ago when I was last in the hobby.

As for manual cleaning, I have some Q-Tips and brushes, I need to get some pipe cleaners to clean the tube in the paint jar. I used the Mr. Color thinner and the Iwata Airbrush Cleaner to clean the brush after I sprayed today. That stuff is going to used up fast, I think.

For the part I painted earlier today, I think the pressure was set too low (15-20 lbs) and I held the brush too far from the wing so the primer was drying somewhat before hitting the wing. The surface isn't real smooth like I wanted. When I put color over the primer later, the roughness of the primer really showed through. I'll try another piece tomorrow and increase the pressure somewhat to see if I get a smoother finish.

I will definitely get a container to keep the excess material in prior to disposal. The hazardous waste disposal is about twenty minutes from the house.

I need to get some Tamiya masking tape then in various widths, I guess. About the only thing I'll be masking is anti-glare panels on Mustangs and a T-6. Nothing very extreme at all. BTW: I have Don's Airbrush Tips bookmarked. I need to go read some more of his information.

Thanks again for your input, Patrick

 

FotoFrank - I recall now you did mention it's a Badger 200. Excellent AB, it will serve you very well. When you bought it, did it have both the glass jar and metal cup?

Check Don's site, he shows examples of cleaning tools that work well. I buy my lacquer thinner at local paint store, quality is better assured there than the discount stores. I use the DuPont name, about $7 for a quart. Cheaper ones were suspicious in terms of quality. That and Acetone are the most effective cleaners.

I use interdental brushes for the largest amount of cleaning equipment, they hold up to lacquer thinner, the little one piece green plastic ones don't, they melt. For the nozzle I use a toothpick, I sand the end down until it passes through the small tip end of the nozzle. No need for any force, the tip end is a bit delicate and can be distorted if un-needed pressure is applied.

I do almost all of my spraying at 12-20 psi, usually 14-18 psi. My guess is the pebbly primer finish was applied at a little too much distance from the surface. That does allow the fine paint particles to dry before settling on the surface. If the paint passes are done too fast, that can also cause it. A major point is use the best lighting you can, the paint spray pattern is best seen, when you have the subject very well lit and visible.

I try to spray at a 90 degree angle to the surface, as much as possible, that prevents blowing paint particles at a shallow angle, onto adjacent areas. For a spray distance I'm rarely closer than 1/2 inch, usually 1 inch. It seams you did the primer thinning OK, for my use it's Badger's Stynylrez, never had to thin it yet.

Looks like you're off to the races, I still recommend some big, smooth plastic jugs, without texture. They will give you the true results of your spray practice sessions, by accurately replicating the surface of a model.

I'll bet with some more practice, varying distance, pressures and thinning ratios you'll have it in the bag. I enjoy your reports of progress, let us know of your results if you find the time.

Patrick

Thanks, Waikong. It's intimidating. I'm going to practive laying down primer and color again in the morning. Since my "studio" is on the patio, I have to work early or late because of the mid-day heat.

I have been getting great support from around the forums from people more experienced than me and I greatly appreciate those folk's comments.

I do have a bad habit of way over analyzing stuff, Tojo. In the morning, though, I'll be out on the patio spraying and practicing on a couple of scrap kits that have been laying around for some time.

I don't use an airbrush for primer. I use my trusty standby -  Rustoleum brand primer in a rattle can.

I would recommend scuff sanding the primer with a super-fine "scotch-brite" pad.  I won't destroy detail, but will smooth out the surface and give some "bite" to your color coats.  Will also help with not peeling paint when you mask, and pull the tape.  Drop by an auto paint supplier or auto parts store for them.  You can cut with a pair of scissors to smaller and narrower pieces.

As for Tamiya tape I use 6 & 10 mm the most, and their newer white curve tape in 2 & 3 mm. 

OK, I primered on one of my Mustangs this morning. The application went well but the primer looks like it needs to be sanded. I was hoping for a very smooth application of the primer and then go to the color after the airplane sat over night. Goldhammer recommends using a super-fine scotch-brite pad to buff the surface before I lay down color. I read other threads by folks who used #0000 steel wool pads to smooth the primer. I'd like to stay away from steel wool but scotch-brite sounds plausable. I just don't want to take off the primer. I used Tamiya surface primer thinned with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner, five parts primer, three parts thinner. Then I used a stiff 1" paint brush to kind of buff the surface.

Does the Rustoleum give you a smooth surface? Or do you still need to sand before shooting color?

Don't know about Blacksheep, but I find I can generally paint flat colors over primer without sanding when going over GP primers, but must sand them before gloss color.

Thanks, Don. I always look forward to your input. I'll see what happens tomorrow. I'll be spraying Tamiya's XF-16 flat aluminum over the primer for a faux natural metal finish. Earlier on a practice piece I shot Testors silver acrylic over the primer to test the look. The Testors silver was plenty silver but not real smooth.

It does go on smooth enough for me. However, the Rustoleum primer I use is both dry and wet sandable. I spray in light coats to get the smooth finish.

Regarding the primer coat on the Mustang I sprayed yesterday, I just read a Tamiya P-51 build review on Hyperscale. The reviewer said he polished the primer he used with a Micro Mesh polishing pad. I looked them up and the pads come in grades of 3200 to 12,000. Who has used these pads? What do you think?

fotofrank

Regarding the primer coat on the Mustang I sprayed yesterday, I just read a Tamiya P-51 build review on Hyperscale. The reviewer said he polished the primer he used with a Micro Mesh polishing pad. I looked them up and the pads come in grades of 3200 to 12,000. Who has used these pads? What do you think?

 

I use grits like that (including the Micro Mesh pads) when I get near the final color coat, but find 600 or 1000 grit fine for the primer before first color coat.

I found two inch pads on Amazon that I think I'll go ahead and buy and have them tomorrow.

Have you tried them on the plastic to prep the surface in lieu of shooting the model with primer?

I've never used the pads but have used the cloths/sheets for a long time. I normally cut them into quarters and wrap them around different sizes and shapes of rubber blocks. As someone else said, I normally use them for polishing gloss surfaces. 

I don't know how firm those pads are but one thing to be careful of with any abrasive is to not end up with finger grooves in whatever you're working on. That's why I normally use some type of backing like the rubber blocks I mentioned. But, like airbrushing, it's something you get a feel for.

For sanding primer I usually cut some 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper into small squares. Size depends on what I'm working on. Same for whether I use it wet or dry. If it's a car body I'll use larger blocks and squares of paper wet. If it's armor or airplane, smaller blocks and paper dry. Think of how a body shop would handle a paint job on your vehicle and reduce it to scale. :-)

Primer should have some "tooth" or texture to it. But you do want it uniform or even. As you get used to airbrushing again you'll learn little things you can do to get better finishes. One of those things may be to thin your primer a little more to get a smoother finish that in turn requires less prep itself. Most true primers will build up in thickness pretty quick. Build it up in thin, light coats just as you would with color. Thin it until it does what you want it to. Primers usually dry very quickly. Especially lacquer types. In a body shop that works with lacquers they would have a number of different types of thinner to use with a given paint so they could match weather conditions. Faster for cooler and slower for warmer. Mr Color is a mild thinner and would fit into the "slower " category probably. Mr Leveling has Mr Retarder added which will slow it a little more. You may not have all the options available a body shop would but with practice you can learn to match conditions. Primarily by thinning more or less. Maybe the shop you bought the Mr Leveling from also sells Mr Retarder. You could always add a little if needed. We don't have the luxury of having the guidelines that body shops do so we have to experiment. Even if we did, they are only guidelines, not law. With polys or catalyzed paints, they're very specific. With the paints we use, sometimes experimenting is required. :-)

Please forgive the rambling.