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Paint being repelled?

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  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:50 PM
I'm really learning a lot here. I guess I'll just have to make sure to get the 100% stuff and not the 70% like I have.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:54 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by echolmberg

I'm really wondering now if there's a difference between rubbing alcohol and isopropyl alcohol. I'm sure someone out there will be saying "Eric you bonehead! Of course there is!"


Rubbing alcohol IS isopropyl alcohol I believe.
I think there are only two types you can buy in the drugstores: Isopropyl alcohol and denatured alcohol. Correct me someone if I am mistaken.

Bacardi 151 doesn't count. Laugh [(-D]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:33 AM
Hi gang!

Just thought I'd give everyone a little update. I stripped the paint off the model for the second time and once again washed it down with Dawn liquid dish soap. What Stinger said really got me to thinking. After my head stopped hurting as a result, I did NOT wipe it down with the rubbing alcohol (70%). I then resprayed (or would this now be "re-resprayed"?) and lo and behold! It worked! I now how a beautiful glossy and glass-smooth surface of paint on the plane! Woo-hoo!!!! I'm really wondering now if there's a difference between rubbing alcohol and isopropyl alcohol. I'm sure someone out there will be saying "Eric you bonehead! Of course there is!" but since I'm an amature at using anything other than the mucho expensive Testors airbrush thinner, this is all new territory to me. :)

Now that I have this beautiful paint job on it (I'm starting to sound like Martha Stewart) I can't wait to cover it all up by applying SnJ metal powder on it. LOL!

Thanks again for the exchange of info in this chat string!

Eric

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:51 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by stinger


Have you ever tried thinning enamels with naptha? It is also a hotter mixture, but probably not as much as an LT mix.


No I haven't. Up until recently the only thinner I had used with Model Master enamels was the Model Master Airbrush Thinner which I always had great results with in the past.
Because it was so expensive I thought I would try some mineral spirits instead since the MM thinner smells very much like mineral spirits to me.

Greg (Plasticmod992) said in a past post that he had great results with Sunnyside Corporation's TRPS (Turpentine Replacement Paint Solvent) with MM enamels.
I would like to give that a try also but the hardware store here didn't have it in stock so I will have to look at another hardware store that carries Sunnyside products.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Everywhere
Posted by stinger on Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:17 AM
Hey Mike, I was hoping you might chime in here. I never really believed that lacquer thinner and enamels (or any oil based paint) were compatible. Not saying that it doesn't work for some people, just that in my experience it does not. I know for sure that when I was building furniture, there was no way that I could use an oil based finish and thin it with LT. And for sure, a clear lacquer finish would never mix with mineral spirits. I've always wondered how the LT mixes with modeling enamels. Maybe there's something a bit different in model paints vs. heavier wood finishes. I've painted many cabinet doors with white enamel, and used to mix in something called Japan Drier to speed up the drying process, and it is quite hot, but I never had a splatter problem. Then again, this was all done with heavier equipment that was not as fussy as our little A/B's.

Have you ever tried thinning enamels with naptha? It is also a hotter mixture, but probably not as much as an LT mix.
Maybe I'll do some tests today with it.


stinger

May an Angel be your wingman, and the Sun be always at your six

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:00 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by stinger

I have read here in the forum where some people use lacquer thinner for enamel thinning, but I haven't tried it yet.


Some people have good results with lacquer thinner for thinning enamels but I haven't with the lacquer thinner I have. It is too "hot" and causes the paint to dry before it hits the model and leaves a grainy surface. The mineral spirits I just bought at a hardware store have seemed to work much better so far.

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Everywhere
Posted by stinger on Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:47 AM
Eric - The 100% denatured alcohol that I use is found in the paint department of stores like Home Depot or Lowe's. It's where they keep the lacquer thinners and mineral spirits. I use it JUST for cleaning bare plastic before the first coat of paint or primer. It's really aggressive on paint and so it makes a good stripper also. I do use it to thin my acrylic paints, but for the most part, they don't need it. It works good for thinning Future, too.

As for your enamels, you are right in using mineral spirits for thinning. I have read here in the forum where some people use lacquer thinner for enamel thinning, but I haven't tried it yet.

Good luck and let us know how the test worked out.

stinger

May an Angel be your wingman, and the Sun be always at your six

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Friday, March 26, 2004 1:49 PM
Stinger, that's great info that I never would have thought about. I'll give it a try and let everyone know. Can I asume you get your 100% denatured alcohol in the same area where you'd find the rubbing alcohol that I used? Oh, and when you say you only use 100% denatured alcohol, do you mean to clean the plastic or to thin your paints. I'm not sure if the iso I was using has menthol in it or not. I'll have to go back and check. But you're exactly right. As I was running into this problem last night I specifically recall thinking "What the heck? It's like my model was waxed!"

By the way, for future reference I was using Testors enamels, not their acrylic line.

So am I still okay to use mineral spirits to thin my enamels for airbrushing?

Thanks again!

Eric

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Everywhere
Posted by stinger on Friday, March 26, 2004 11:20 AM
I think zokissima may have hit it there with the compressor contamination.

I'm also thinking, though, that the 70% iso alcohol may have some other ingredients that have left a residue on the plastic. The effects you describe sound very much like the surface being tainted with a silcone or waxy substance. Does the Iso you're using contain any kind of menthol? Don't know for sure but that may be it.
When I spray onto bare plastic I only use 100% denatured alcohol. This won't work, however, on painted surfaces. Try taking an old model or a small piece of sheet styrene and clean it in the same way as your model, with the exception of treating only one half of it with the iso acohol that you are using. Spray the whole piece, and check the results.

Let us know what you find out.

stinger

May an Angel be your wingman, and the Sun be always at your six

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 26, 2004 11:19 AM
Kind of Odd !

What brand of paint did you use ?
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Friday, March 26, 2004 11:16 AM
Thanks for all the tips! I'll have to give them a try. Normally I don't scrub the model as much as I did last night. Normally just a wash using Dawn does it for me but I was trying to be extra careful last night I guess. I'm going to be using SnJ metal powder over the gloss white with some panels picked out in glass black. Perhaps the paint got skunky after sitting for darn near eight months. I'm also thinking that, in my eagerness to "get back at it" I didn't thoroughly let the plane dry. I think a combination of everything written by you guys contributed to the debacle last night! LOL!

Thanks again for everything! I will be sure to steel wool the model, get new paint, make sure the compressor doesn't have moisture in it, and lay down a primer coat too!

You guys are great,

EricCool [8D]

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Friday, March 26, 2004 11:03 AM
Damn, you really scrubbed that surface. I just usually rinse it in warm, sometimes not soapy, water, and I've never had problems. I don't think the cleanliness of your model is the problem. You say you fired up the compressor after 7 months... Maybe there was a lot of moisture in your air supply, or maybe the paint went bad (assuming the paint is 7 months old as well :)
Try laying down a layer of primer first, then see if you still have the same problem...
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Friday, March 26, 2004 10:45 AM
I don't use enamel much, but when I do I just use mineral spirits to thin it and haven't had any problems.

I assume that you **ARE** using enamel and not acrylic paint. Not sure what that kind of mix would do Big Smile [:D]

You cleaned the surface probably better than I would have, so there certainly shouldn't be any oil or anything like that on it. Did you let the water dry completely betore you tried to paint it? I usually use a hair dryer on mine if I wash them with water.

Perhaps a light scuffing with some very fine steel wool would help, but I don't understand why it didn't stick the way you had it.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Paint being repelled?
Posted by echolmberg on Friday, March 26, 2004 9:44 AM
Hi everyone! I need your help. Here's what happened.

Last night, for the first time in the seven months that my little baby girl was born, I fired up my compressor and airbrushed some gloss white onto my 1/144 B-47. Now I know I might be a bit out of practice but it was weird to see the paint almost "beading up" on the wings!

Here's what I did: First I washed the model with Dawn dishwashing detergent while wearing latex gloves. I dried it off and went back to my hobby bench where I stuffed tissue into all the openings. I then put on a fresh pair of gloves then wiped the model down with isopropyl alcohol (70%) and set it aside to dry. I then thinned my Testors gloss white with some low-odor mineral spirits and airbrushed it on using about 20 psi. It was atomizing beautifully but then I realized that the paint was almost beading up and not covering very nicely! My first thought was maybe it was the mineral spirits. Am I not supposed to use that for airbrushing? So then I stripped the paint off and thinned a new batch of paint using Testors airbrush thinner. I did the wings and the fuse seperately. The bottom of the wings and the fuse seemed to be okay (except for the tail) but the top of the wings didn't take the paint very well at all.

Help! I thought after all the Dawn and alcohol cleaning there wouldn't be any finger oils nor mold release agents left on the plastic! Any thoughts/opinions/advise?

Looking forward to hearing from everyone!

Eric

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