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Primer question

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gio
  • Member since
    March, 2016
Primer question
Posted by gio on Friday, June 22, 2018 11:45 PM

Hi guys. Newbie here :) Is primer really necessary for small scale like 1:35? I used Tamiya enamel long time ago. I didn't use any primer back then and everything just turn out just great. Now I'm on Taamiya acrylic so just wondering.

Tags: newbie , Primer
  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:28 AM

Let’s just say it’s a variable. If your working on a multi media subject, where brass and/or resin is involved, primer is good idea. But if you’re  painting a strictly styrene model, Tamiya Acrylics without primer are perfectly fine.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Saturday, June 23, 2018 1:23 AM

Primer makes the paint on top stick to the model better.

You don't need it, but it really improves the durability of your finish.

I tend to not prime things like aircraft interiors, but I do use primer on the exterior of all my models.

As Stik already mentioned, on multimedia kits, you definitely want some primer under your paint.

Not only does paint not stick properly to metal surfaces, but you can also see the shine of the metal parts through the paint on the finished model.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 23, 2018 1:59 AM

Use of primer depends upon three main qualities in the paint type that you plan to use: adhesion, durability, and opacity. If the paint you use is lacking in any of those areas, primer is a good idea. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:37 AM

stikpusher

Use of primer depends upon three main qualities in the paint type that you plan to use: adhesion, durability, and opacity. If the paint you use is lacking in any of those areas, primer is a good idea. 

Apart from the usual suspects (gloss white, red, yellow and orange) which are a little light on opacity, Tamiya acrylics tick all three of these boxes, assuning that the surface is clean before application.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, June 23, 2018 9:01 AM

I like to prime with Tamiya White, applied very thin. It really helps to show flaws in construction.

I believe it produces better color rendition all across the spectrum.

And it's rare that one model gets painted finish colors of one type of paint only.

 

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, June 23, 2018 9:13 AM

Back in my enamel days, I don't think I knew primer existed and it didn't matter.

Fast forward to now >>>> After one major event with acrylic pulling up, and a few minor ones on small parts, I prime just about everything.

That's just me, as you can already see, opinions vary and I don't think there is a right or wrong, more your comfort level and routine.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, June 23, 2018 9:32 AM

I don't prime really small parts that I brush paint.  On anything I will be using masking tape on, I always prime.  On other surfaces it varies, depending on how lazy I am that day.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

gio
  • Member since
    March, 2016
Posted by gio on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:26 PM

stikpusher

Let’s just say it’s a variable. If your working on a multi media subject, where brass and/or resin is involved, primer is good idea. But if you’re  painting a strictly styrene model, Tamiya Acrylics without primer are perfectly fine.

 

 

Totally makes sense. I'm also scared I might lose the details if I woudn't be able to paint thinly; just one the noobs apprehensions I guess. :) Thanks!

gio
  • Member since
    March, 2016
Posted by gio on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:28 PM

Greg

Back in my enamel days, I don't think I knew primer existed and it didn't matter.

Fast forward to now >>>> After one major event with acrylic pulling up, and a few minor ones on small parts, I prime just about everything.

That's just me, as you can already see, opinions vary and I don't think there is a right or wrong, more your comfort level and routine.

 

 
Thanks Greg for the insight. Aside from adhesion issue, is the difference that easy to discern?
gio
  • Member since
    March, 2016
Posted by gio on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:49 PM

GMorrison

I like to prime with Tamiya White, applied very thin. It really helps to show flaws in construction.

I believe it produces better color rendition all across the spectrum.

And it's rare that one model gets painted finish colors of one type of paint only.

 

I plan of getting the same but the "thin" part scares me. Is Tamiya good for other paints too?

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:03 PM

Yes, in my experience.

 

Thin is good. One quick coat does the job.

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:22 PM

gio

 

 
Greg

Back in my enamel days, I don't think I knew primer existed and it didn't matter.

Fast forward to now >>>> After one major event with acrylic pulling up, and a few minor ones on small parts, I prime just about everything.

That's just me, as you can already see, opinions vary and I don't think there is a right or wrong, more your comfort level and routine.

 

 

 
Thanks Greg for the insight. Aside from adhesion issue, is the difference that easy to discern?
 

Visually, I think there is no difference primer vs no primer. More or less.

You are right, it is really all about the adhesion, and how well you really need or want it to adhere. One rule of thumb you might want to consider is if you'll be masking (and subsequently pulling up the masking tape), if you are painting with acrylic I would mask.

Little fiddly parts like Don mentioned, not really necessary if you choose not to.

-Greg

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 1:50 PM

I know it's not a method used by many modelers, but to ensure best chance for paint adhesion I always carefully wash and thoroughly rinse the kit straight from the box. Then after assembly I give it a good wipe down with alcohol, in prep for paint. Maybe overkill, but I think it's worth it.

I've had good results with Badger's Stynylrez primer, applied in a couple of light coats, then lightly sanded with fine grit pads. I've had virtually no lifting of masks that way. For finish coats I use highly thinned Tamiya, sprayed in several passes, to check for any flaws I missed seeing. Then if it looks good I'll spray another coat, thinned about 2 parts thinner to 3 parts paint.

So, for me the use of primer is nearly always the best assurance for a durable and mask lift resistant finish. As an aside, I see some modelers thinning at very high rates, like 60-80 % thinner. Their models do look really good to me.

Patrick

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Sunday, June 24, 2018 5:10 PM

I don't usually wash the sprues before I start assembling a kit, but I do wipe down the model before I start painting it.

My paint mixes are very thin most of the time, so priming the model also gives me a uniform base to start painting on instead of a patchwork of different colors and materials.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, June 25, 2018 8:35 AM

As far as mold release is concerned, I find modern styrene kits seem to have licked this problem.  If not, reviews and friends building the kit have given me fair warning about problem kits which I then make sure to prime.  I do not use mold release when doing resin castings, but then I am not trying to get 100 pours per mould :-)   I do prime any resin kit I buy.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, June 25, 2018 8:41 AM

Don Stauffer
As far as mold release is concerned, I find modern styrene kits seem to have licked this problem.

Unless you build kits from Eastern Europe. Some of those seem to be coated with a very apparent film of oil. 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, June 25, 2018 11:16 AM

Phil_H

 

 
Don Stauffer
As far as mold release is concerned, I find modern styrene kits seem to have licked this problem.

 

Unless you build kits from Eastern Europe. Some of those seem to be coated with a very apparent film of oil. 

 

Yes! The first few ICM kits that I built had that oil film. I used Polly S Plastic Prep to clean it off.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Monday, June 25, 2018 2:59 PM

I'm currently building an Academy 1:35 AH-1W Cobra. It had many areas of a light oily substance, enough that if I wiped my finger over the spots I could feel it when rubbing my fingers together. Dish detergent and a few good rinses took care of it.

Some kit makers evidently still use the mold release, even if wiped down with alcohol before assembly, it may only dilute the release agent and spread contamination. Just my thoughts.

Patrick

  • Member since
    July, 2014
Posted by Bakster on Monday, June 25, 2018 6:36 PM

patrick206
I've had good results with Badger's Stynylrez primer, applied in a couple of light coats, then lightly sanded with fine grit pads. I've had virtually no lifting of masks that way

Patrick, you have me interested. This appears to be acrylic as well. 

 

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 12:07 PM

Bakster

 

 
patrick206
I've had good results with Badger's Stynylrez primer, applied in a couple of light coats, then lightly sanded with fine grit pads. I've had virtually no lifting of masks that way

 

Patrick, you have me interested. This appears to be acrylic as well. 

 

Stynlyrez is the bees knees, Stevie. 'Twas Patrick got me going on it.

-Greg

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 4:31 PM

Steve - Ironically I was spot priming some filled areas last evening, using Stynylerre gray. Tiny bit of 91% added to thin, (maybe 5%,) today as I was sanding to check surface prep, I found a couple of little spots where the AB had evidently spattered just a bit.

The spots could not be removed with a fingernail scrape, they had to be sanded to remove, that is how well it sticks to the surface. I have never used the black or white Stynylrez so no experience, BUT, I have read that the white can be problematic. As long as they produce the gray that will be my only primer, I'm completely sold on it.

Easy cleanup of airbrush as well, 91% does it OK, although I customarily use lacquer thinner for most cleanup. Give it a try, if you don't like it Greg will give you double your money back. (:>)

Patrick

 

gio
  • Member since
    March, 2016
Posted by gio on Sunday, July 01, 2018 1:25 PM

Thanks so much guys for all the advise and insights! I'll definitely keep this thread handy.

 

~Gio

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:05 PM

Good info given above. Like stik said, I too only use primer on PE and resin or if the parts are different colors such as the Academy new tooled F-4s that are white and grey, this way I have color consistency of my top coat. I also suggest using primer over putty filler to get a smoother top coat finish.

Tamiya acrylics spray pretty close like enamels and are very durable as opposed to MM Acryl that will easily lift if a solvent type primer is not used. Even the Acryl primer will lift when removing masking tape. On the other hand, I have heard great things about the Badger and Mission Model Acrylic primers.

I have also read that Mr. Color Leveling Thinner will help the Tamiya paints spray even better and smoother.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April, 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Sunday, July 01, 2018 8:38 PM

I must say, that the Gunze "Mr. Color" or "Mr. Surfacer" spray cans have always done a very fine job for me.  Quick and easy way to get a good primer surface applied.  However, they are not easy to find.  Sprue Bros. usually has them in stock.

 

Computer, did we bring batteries?.....Computer?

  • Member since
    July, 2014
Posted by Bakster on Monday, July 02, 2018 6:56 PM

My only comment is why am I only hearing about this now. Lol. 

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
Posted by Bakster on Monday, July 02, 2018 7:01 PM

Say Patrick, thanks for the info. I will order and try this. This sounds pretty good. Heck. I can't lose with Greg's double my money back guarantee! Such a deal. Thanks Greg!

 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Monday, July 02, 2018 7:19 PM

plasticjunkie
I have also read that Mr. Color Leveling Thinner will help the Tamiya paints spray even better and smoother.

I can only confirm this. I use the Leveling Thinner and love it. The Gunze paints I normally use already spray very nicely, but the Leveling Thinner makes them go on even smoother. It's not easy to get that stuff here though, so I only use it for camos and paint effects. For base coats and primers I still use the normal, easy to find thinner.

With Tamiya paints, I use the Leveling Thinner exclusively because imo the difference is much more noticeable than with Gunze paints.

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 5:12 PM

Bakster

Say Patrick, thanks for the info. I will order and try this. This sounds pretty good. Heck. I can't lose with Greg's double my money back guarantee! Such a deal. Thanks Greg!

 

My pleasure, Stevie. Heck, I might hand-deliver the refund if needed. A road trip to WI might be refreshing in this mini-heat wave down here in the frozen midwest.

-Greg

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