Best airbrush cleaner for Vallejo model air?

Since I've been adding Vallejo Flow Improver in greater proportions (1:1 - 3:1, Flow to Paint) I'm able to spray with minimal tip dry.  I can finish a side of a 1/48 Bf 109 fuselage without tip dry, including mottling.  I also have a mix using 70% Flow, 30% Vallejo AB thinner, 10 drops of Vallejo Retarder which I also reach for at times, but use Flow Improver just alone as a thinning and flow agent most of the time.  I add a Vallejo Gloss Clear Coat after a few days to seal and protect finish.  When laying down fuselage bands and yellow identification markings, I seal these with an acrylic clear (either Future or Createx 4050 thinned 50/50 with Createx 4012 reducer) in preparation for masking these areas.

I cleanup with tap water (never alcohol, Windex or lacquer thinner, these contribute to problems with Vallejo paints since their residue remains after cleaning) and then cup full of Vallejo AB Cleaner to include a little back flushing.  I also use Createx 4012 when cleaning after using their 4050 Gloss.  (Note: I also prime with Createx 4050 before painting...very versatile clear).

As to cleaning Vallejo paints I just flush and back flush with really hot tap water. Then flush and back flush with Windex and final rinse with cold water and spray that through.Never had an issue with MA or with MC.

I thin with my own thinner which has Liquitex retarder in it and the retarder stops tip dry. But I have the Liquitex on hand anyway that I use in this way but in all acrylic paints as well, even in art work. I spray both MA and MC, no issues, no complaints. I thin the MA to run through a .25 needle. And MC has to be thinned. But even if I did not intentionally thin MA I would still put some retarder in it. My thinner has both retarder and flow aid though.It doesn't hurt MA to thin about 1/3 or so thinner, it just sprays all the better and without tip dry. In my experience. I have no issue with it but then I have no issue with craft paints either lol.Or with most any acrylic paint once I learn it's ways.

My  for what it's worth.

I've used Vallejo Model Air for years. If I need to dilute it (rarely) I dilute with distilled water. When finished, I fill the cup 1/2 full of Windex, swish it around the cup with an old stiff paint brush and dump it out into a empty jar. Then I add another 1/2 cup of Windex and do the same. This is followed by a 1/2 cup of distilled water sprayed through the airbrush. Never had any trouble with the airbrush.

Jim 

Stay Safe.

Ok, final word from me on this. Vallejo cleaner worked, no clumping. Though, I had to work at cleaning. It cuts paint but not like a lacquer would. I had to scrub the color cup with a swab to work the paint free. But, at least, no clumping. I have to say that the Revell Aqua might have a slight edge with cleaning power. 

Secondly, I almost had a disaster. After about 10 minutes of painting the brush became clogged. So much so, paint was bubbling in the color cup. I isolated it to dried paint at the tip. The thing is, I was wiping it with a swab through those 10 minutes. But, now that I think about it, I put lacquer thinner on the swab. Maybe that didn't help in light of what I am seeing happen with this paint and lacquer. Once I cleared it, it was not spraying all that well. It kept clogging and it started spitting. I had to stop painting at that point.  Needless to say, I had to do a deep cleaning afterwards.

Final conclusion: I am avoiding this paint if I can help it. Btw. Tonights episode was with a different bottle, different color. So, we can't isolate it to being one bad bottle.

A small update. Being committed to finish this job with the paint I have, I did another application. This time, I tried using Windex to clean, and that was a no joy as well. It was more of the clumping, only, maybe, not as severe. So, I reached for some Revell Aqua Color Cleaner that I had mistakenly purchased months back. That actually seemed to work. It dissolved the paint. It still took a little longer to clean than I would have liked, but at least, it seems to cut the paint.

I went to Hobbytown today to purchase Vallejos cleaner. This did little to improve my mood about Vallejo. With tax...$5.01 for a tiny 85 mil/2.87 fluid oz bottle. Seriously? That won't last very long at all unless it is some magic stuff that cuts the paint like nobody's business. Whatever... I have to see this through. I will let you know how it goes. 

Wow, Patrick... thank you for sharing that. What a huge confirmation to hear all of this from you. I say that because I know you are not a person to give up easily. Interestingly, your experience with using flow improver is exactly the same as mine. It extends the drying time by days and the paint is extremely delicate. I might go as far to say that the paint becomes compromised.

It is funny you mentioned pulling the nozzel because I was thinking of trying that too, to manually mix it.

I always hesitate to bring these things up because yes, there are people using the paint and they seem quite happy with it. I feel like it must be me, but no matter what I try with this, I can't get there. I really want it to work.

I 100% agree about Tamiya and that has been my go to paint for several years. Supply chain issues have forced me to try other things. My local hobby stores can't keep the racks filled! 

Thanks again, Patrick. It is great to hear from you! 

Hi, Steve -

Some time back I liked the idea of the handy little Valley Joe bottles and the product sounded appealing. I ordered a whole, great big heaping gob of the stuff, including all of their thinner and other items. Exciting to see it arrive, read up about it, then used it.

I'm glad others that have and are still using it, get results that please them. After giving it plenty of attempts to use, I quit and "came in from the ledge." 

First issue was their advice to just roll it between your hands to mix. B.S.! I was getting very poor consistency that way, after lifting the nozzle off and stirring the bottom, I was seeing thick globs of Model Air solids on the stirring paddle. By stirring I got the stuff to a smooth consistency, then put in some tiny stainless nuts for shaking to ensure proper mixing for further use.

Next was dry tip, eventually finding flow improvers that did indeed help.

Then it stayed tacky and easily marked for a few days after use.

Next was the paint lifting with tape removal. Model Air primer offered no help in preventing that. Adios, Amigo's, I moved on.

The fact that others use Model Air with good results does not speak well for my attempts, but for whatever reason I just was unable to make it work for me.

For several years I've stuck with Tamiya, predictably good results, simple and straight forward. It can be thinned with their X-20A, lacquer thinner, IPA, all work well. Cleanup with same products.

Patrick

Tojo72

 

 

Bakster

Hey Tojo, thanks for commenting, and that is very interesting. So, you are airbrushing using their non AB formulated paint? What are you thinning the paint with? The Vallejo thinner? 

 

 

 

 

Yes,I use their thinner,along with their Flow Improver.Im not married to the stuff,but they did have colors that I needed at the time and I have gotten comfortable in using them with good results.

 

Ok thanks, Tojo. I have some of both so i will test it.

Thanks again for your input.

Bakster

Hey Tojo, thanks for commenting, and that is very interesting. So, you are airbrushing using their non AB formulated paint? What are you thinning the paint with? The Vallejo thinner? 

 

Yes,I use their thinner,along with their Flow Improver.Im not married to the stuff,but they did have colors that I needed at the time and I have gotten comfortable in using them with good results.

It will be OK with the other airbrushes, but a small ultrasonic cleaner like the one I have probably wouldn't be large enough for the parts to get fully submerged.  But, I don't think they even make them that small anymore so you should be good.

Okay thanks!

Bakster

The ultrasonic cleaner should be ok too with other brushes correct?

It will be OK with the other airbrushes, but a small ultrasonic cleaner like the one I have probably wouldn't be large enough for the parts to get fully submerged.  But, I don't think they even make them that small anymore so you should be good.

As far as MRPs color selection goes, they have almost every color that I use in my modeling.  Tamiya and Model Master Enamels handle the rest, and I'm also kinda liking the Gunze Lacquers for some of the cool colors they have.  Also rediscovered the little Testors square bottles recently.  They're really awesome for detail painting over the top of MRP because the MRP is completely unharmed by paint thinner, so if I slip with the brush, I can just wait for the paint to dry and then precisely erase the mistakes with a thinner-dampened swab.  It doesn't even touch the MRP paint underneath.  Thinking about using those properties to my advantage the next time I paint and detail an instrument panel that I can't get a Quinta set for.

Hey Tojo, thanks for commenting, and that is very interesting. So, you are airbrushing using their non AB formulated paint? What are you thinning the paint with? The Vallejo thinner? 

Hey Eaglecash, thanks for posting and confirming I am not imagining this. I laughed about the Model Master Acryl. That is so dang true. Also, I had tossed around the idea of an ultrsonc cleaner before, you have just moved the idea to the front burner.

Yes! I am still using the Paasche but since I got the quick disconnects, I am switching back and forth. I tell ya... I wish I had gotten the disconnects sooner. In the past, I didn't change brushes just because it was a pain. Now, wham-bam, I am switching things out on the fly. 

The ultrasonic cleaner should be ok too with other brushes correct?

BTW. You may have seen me comment on MRP paint elsewhere, but just letting you know, your recommendation was spot on. The paint performs flawlessly straight from the bottle. Now... if they would just expand their color offering. I guess if there one thing Vallejo does well it is their broad range of color offerings. Just too bad the product does not perform well.

If I was a rich dude... I would buy the rights to the MRP line of paint and then expand the color offering. Then.. I would expand distribution putting the product in the mainstream. Why would it sell? Why would it stand out? Why? Why is because it works! It would sell itself. The paint would be the go to product most modelers would reach for. MRP is missing an opportunity to take over the market. 

Back to Vallejo. I will go purchase their AB cleaner and see if just maybe... they got that right.

Thanks again.

I don't use Model Air,but I use plenty of Model Color,it cleans nicely with Madea Air Brush Cleaner.

Hey Bakster,

I tried Vallejo Model Air once and that was all it took...I moved on for all the same reasons you didn't like it.  I think I remember using pure ammonia at the time to clean my airbrush parts of it.  The only reason I even had the ammonia was because of my brief, dubious flirtation with the Model Master Acryl paints, which were also an unmitigated disaster.  These days I am using Walmart's generic glass cleaner (also does a better job cleaning glass than Windex) to clean my airbrush on the rare occasions I use acrylic paint (I think Gauzy Agent Shine Enhancer is the only acrylic product I use now).  I know that some people say that Windex can damage the chrome plating on your airbrush parts, but as rarely as I use it, it hasn't been a problem.  If your Paasche H is still your go-to airbrush, I also highly recommend an ultrasonic cleaner.  I use old relish jars to keep my cleaning fluids in (Glass cleaner for acrylics, and MEK for everything else) because they're the perfect size to fit into the ultrasonic cleaner's tub.  I use the jars so the nasty chemicals can be in a sealed container while the cleaning process runs and I don't have to deal with the fumes.  Just drop your color cup, needle, and air cap into the jar, jar into the cleaner tub, and then add enough water to fill the empty space in the cleaner tub...that will help evenly transmit the sound waves into the jar.  Let it run for about 30 minutes and you'll have squeaky-clean airbrush parts.  At that point you can just run the cleaned parts under hot water in the sink to rinse them off.  Sounds complicated, I know, but its actually a really quick process that will also help you focus more on just enjoying the experience of airbrushing things without all the brain damage of trying to get things to work.  If your airbrush parts are particularly gummed up, there's a possibility you may have to run them in the cleaner a second time, but the first time usually gets it done...the key is the minimum 30 minute cleaning time.  Any shorter than that and the results aren't as good.

This is an old thread but I thought I'd use it. I just experienced the same exact problem the OP had.

Let's get this out of the way right from the get go. I shot Model Air using Vallejos thinner. So no, I did not use some sort of rogue concoction. The spray went ok I guess but I did notice some specs in the finish. Makes me wonder if the problem was in process at the start.

For a long time I have not been a fan of this paint for various reasons, but I was starting to accept it. Just when I thought, Ok, maybe I can live with some of the things I don't like about it, it bites me in a new way. Nevermind the tip dry, or the slow dry time, or the poor adhesion. Now, I am gonna clean your clock and gum up your hardware.

When it was time to clean the brush I used lacquer. And what happened? The paint broke up into tiny globules. I always use lacquer and this time, the paint turned bad. I had a heck of a time cleaning the color cup and the brush. Just when I thought I got it clean, more junk came out. So irritated with Vallejo paint. The only reason I went with it on this job was because of color options and local availability. 

So what do I clean the brush with? I hear people say do not use IPA, and no to windex, and no to pretty much whatever. Though people in this thread say lacquer works, I am hear to tell you, it turned my paint bad. Though, previous times it did not seem to be a problem. It's' a new bottle but maybe it's old paint. Just spitballing.

Someone talk me off the ledge. Should I buy Vallejos AB cleaner? Does it work?

I watched a guy use steaming HOT water to clean Vallejo out. That sounds like a pain. What? I have to boil water every time I use Vallejo? Like I am gonna deliver a baby? Seems appropriate but quite ridiculous.

Sigh.

jcfay

 

 

plasticjunkie

Hey for those that ordered the tiny brush I suggested, I would love to hear some feedback after using it.

 

 

 

They work great, thanks.  I had received an "airbrush cleaner kit" a while back, a real cheap set probably 10$.  It's got a number of larger brushes, as well as metal reamers of some sort.  Long story short, it doesn't work for modeling airbrushes (probably works for guys doing full-size cars...) and the dental picks work great.  They get into the tip well but are also gentle enough so I don't have to fear damaging the tip or nozzle.  I definitely was able to pull out some goop using it.  Plus, they're cheap and reusable!

 

go to Habor Freight and get their AB cleaning brush set, they are a couple of bucks. They are great for brushing the AB body air and needle passages. They also clean side and bottom feed cup paint pipes.

plasticjunkie

Hey for those that ordered the tiny brush I suggested, I would love to hear some feedback after using it.

They work great, thanks.  I had received an "airbrush cleaner kit" a while back, a real cheap set probably 10$.  It's got a number of larger brushes, as well as metal reamers of some sort.  Long story short, it doesn't work for modeling airbrushes (probably works for guys doing full-size cars...) and the dental picks work great.  They get into the tip well but are also gentle enough so I don't have to fear damaging the tip or nozzle.  I definitely was able to pull out some goop using it.  Plus, they're cheap and reusable!

Hey for those that ordered the tiny brush I suggested, I would love to hear some feedback after using it.

ZAT

On my current build, I’m using the Vallejo Modea Air straight out if the bottle through a NEO running at around 18-20 psi

Just a suggestion, but you might want to try 20-25 psi. I know, that sounds high but it's what Vallejo recommends and I've found it to be the best working pressure for Model Air. It's only a few more PSI that you are already at, so it may make no difference at all.

jcfay

are you guys thinning your vallejo paints or just spraying them "neat" out of the bottle?

Vallejo Model Air sprays fine without thinning, but as mentioned before, Vallejo's Flow Improver will help eliminate dry tip. Most folks use a tiny bit of Vallejo Airbrush thinner too, myself included. Not sure why, really.

jcfay

 

 I've just started using Badger's stynylrez, but my go to in the past was Tamiya's spray can primer decanted and then airbrushed.  Either that or Mr. Surfacer 1200 (I just got some of the 1500 too in black, but haven't tried it yet).  The Tamiya and Mr. Surfacer got really good primer adhesion, I felt.  Not sure about the Badger stuff yet...

 

Stynylrez should be fine if you do it right. Most people who try it stick with it. I know I'm a convert after decades of solvent based paints.

plasticjunkie

I for one never clean or wash model parts except resin ones. Vallejo apparently lifts as easy as MM acrylics. A solvent primer like Tamiya's or Alclad's will give the Vallejo some tooth into the surface helping to lessen the lifting effect. Tamiya acrylics adhere very well  and speaking from experience, I have masked over Tamiya paint just a couple of hours after application with no paint lifting when removing the masking tape.

I've just started using Badger's stynylrez, but my go to in the past was Tamiya's spray can primer decanted and then airbrushed.  Either that or Mr. Surfacer 1200 (I just got some of the 1500 too in black, but haven't tried it yet).  The Tamiya and Mr. Surfacer got really good primer adhesion, I felt.  Not sure about the Badger stuff yet...

I live in the city, and so most stores are small near me and have a limited selection.  I suppose could try multiple grocery stores, targets, etc. but it's just easier for me to order via amazon.  And often the prices are damn good too (especially with free prime delivery).  

jcfay

thanks again just ordered some off amazon

 

What is it with folks ordering simple dental picks through Amazon? You can find them cheaper at Walmart or drug store. 

jcfay

 

 

DasBeav

Vallejo model air is pretty much dry to touch in 10 minutes. I wait 48-72 hours for it to cure before I mask. Still might have paint liftage. Make sure you de-sticky the tape.

 

 

 

thanks.  I did get a little liftage but not bad at all considering I'm getting back to the hobby and forgot to clean the model prior to priming, so some liftage wasn't surprising.  I also only waited a few hours, but did use a pretty gentle painters tape (like the tamiya stuff except sold at home depot, etc. in large rolls for cheap).  I'll give it more time to rest next time around.  

 

I for one never clean or wash model parts except resin ones. Vallejo apparently lifts as easy as MM acrylics. A solvent primer like Tamiya's or Alclad's will give the Vallejo some tooth into the surface helping to lessen the lifting effect. Tamiya acrylics adhere very well  and speaking from experience, I have masked over Tamiya paint just a couple of hours after application with no paint lifting when removing the masking tape.

DasBeav

Vallejo model air is pretty much dry to touch in 10 minutes. I wait 48-72 hours for it to cure before I mask. Still might have paint liftage. Make sure you de-sticky the tape.

thanks.  I did get a little liftage but not bad at all considering I'm getting back to the hobby and forgot to clean the model prior to priming, so some liftage wasn't surprising.  I also only waited a few hours, but did use a pretty gentle painters tape (like the tamiya stuff except sold at home depot, etc. in large rolls for cheap).  I'll give it more time to rest next time around.  

Vallejo model air is pretty much dry to touch in 10 minutes. I wait 48-72 hours for it to cure before I mask. Still might have paint liftage. Make sure you de-sticky the tape.