Acrylic Paint not sticking

Hey, yeah Baron.

               Let me know how it works out. I may run a test myself!

When I use lacquer primer I don't use Mr Surfacer but Mr Primer Surfacer 1000 in a jar. It only needs thinning about 25% thinner, dries smooth as silk.. But it only comes in light grey.

I mostly use Stynylrez though.

Tanker-Builder

...The primer seems to be the same in the jars and cans except for this. The jar type IS a wee bit thicker...

Thanks, TB, that's what I suspected.  I can see what you describe, too, that the primer in the jar is thick. But then again, so is Mr. Surfacer! I have the same idea with either, which is to thin them to no more than 1:1 thinner to primer, and probably more on thinner and less on primer. One of these days, I'll set up a test to see how it goes.

Oh!

      Thanks for that.I forgot about the difference I have so much on my plate right now. You are so right. Use the retarder only when using the Acrylic Enamel!!

Tamiya Surface Primer in the can is a lacquer, so just make sure you're not using their acrylic retarder with that.  Retarders aren't necessary for airbrushing Tamiya Surface Primer (even with 20% humidity at 6000 feet above sea level), and if the retarder contains alcohol (which I think it does) it will not react well with Tamiya Surface Primer in the can.  Alcohol causes it to turn to a cottage cheese-like consistency as soon as they're mixed.  Just stick with lacquer thinner (others thin theirs with that) or MEK (my go-to method), thin for a skim milk consistency, and you'll be fine.  I prime even the smallest of pieces, using my airbrush, with decanted Tamiya Surface Primer.

Hi Baron!

           Something most don't know. I do now, use Tamiya paint products now that I have learned their intracacies. The primer seems to be the same in the jars and cans except for this. The jar type IS a wee bit thicker. Thinning it by a quarter seems to make it sprayable with no problem. Just make sure to add a wee bit of Retarder - Two large drops, to each 1/2 oz of paint you're going to Spray - paint.

             If possible I like to brush the primer on. Thicker  means pinholes and irreguar spots are filled quickly and disappear better that way. Decanting isn't that hard. I use the Nozzle from a WD-40 spray rig.(Can) it works perfect and that way with the little hole in the lid of the jar, I've Made, there's no mess and it comes with it's own little tube, To go from a spray to a stream! Remember this too. All spray nozzles can be Cleaned by turning the can Upside down and letting the paint expel till there's nothing but air coming out. This used to be printed on every can, no matter who made it!

the Baron

Thanks!  Yeah, Scott Green at Hyperscale has a video posted to demonstrate decanting paint from a jar.  I can't speak for others, of course, but personally that's more than I care to do.

Oh, I'm with you on that.  The way I have seen most guys do decanting scared me away too, but then I came up with my own way of doing it that doesn't make a mess and doesn't involve punching or cutting into pressurized cans.  I just got a case of 4 ounce mason jars, and drilled one of the lids to accept a 1/4" ID grommet.  I then take the nozzle off the can and epoxy a bendable party straw to it.  Once that cures overnight, I just shake the can to thoroughly mix the paint, pop the nozzle back on the can, screw the lid with the grommet loosely onto a fresh jar, put the short, bent end of the straw through the grommet, and just hold the nozzle down until everything has transferred from the can to the jar.  Then I put an un-drilled lid on the jar and leave the lid loose overnight to let all of the propellant come out of solution.  Its less than 20 minutes worth of actual work, and then I have primer for months before I have to do a refill of the jar.  Not much problem with fumes either.

Thanks!  Yeah, Scott Green at Hyperscale has a video posted to demonstrate decanting paint from a jar.  I can't speak for others, of course, but personally that's more than I care to do.

But I'll have to add to the things I want to try out, airbrushing Tamiya's liquid surface primer, to see how well or how poorly it works, compared to the rattlecans.  I just reminded myself that I have a jar of the white, from a club meeting giveaway.

I think I mentioned before, I want to try Mr Surfacer some time, too.  Just to see.

the Baron

EC, do you know if the liquid primer Tamiya sells in jars, the same formula as the rattlecans?  If it is, then anyone who might not want to decant a spray can could select the jar instead. I don't know, myself, because I've never used the primer in jars.

Baron, I've never used the stuff in the jar, so I don't know if it is the same formula.  I have a pretty good system for decanting that makes it so easy I have never wanted to change from that.  I have used the Mr. Surfacer stuff in the jars, which always worked well, but the contents of the jar usually would slowly thicken as time passed, probably because a smaller jar is more difficult to keep the lid and rim of the jar clean for a good seal.  Decanting a 3 ouce rattle can of Tamiya into a 4 ounce mason jar gives me plenty of extra space, so I can keep returning the unused primer/MEK from my airbrush to it, and it remains in good condition right to the end.  Much easier to wipe off little, stray drips from the rim of the larger jar opening too, so it always keeps a perfect seal and the threads don't get fouled.

Eaglecash867

Decanted Tamiya primer works great out of an airbrush too...

EC, do you know if the liquid primer Tamiya sells in jars, the same formula as the rattlecans?  If it is, then anyone who might not want to decant a spray can could select the jar instead.

I don't know, myself, because I've never used the primer in jars.

Decanted Tamiya primer works great out of an airbrush too.  Preserves all the details, and there's a lot less waste than shooting straight from the can.  I decant whole cans of the stuff into a 4 ounce mason jar and thin 50/50 with MEK to shoot it. 

JeffgInTx

(almost 3-yr old post, so not sure if anyone else is still monitoring...) 

Hey Baron - with the automotive primers, do you find that they are too thick and cover fine detail?  I can see using it on large areas like fuselage bodies or ship hulls, but I'd be concerned with areas like wheel wells, cockpits, etc.  Not doubting you, serious question.

Thanks!

Jeff

Hi, Tojo, I did see this thread, since the bump pushed it to the top of the Technique forum on the index page 

Or...just find out on your own.

Bill

JeffgInTx

(almost 3-yr old post, so not sure if anyone else is still monitoring...)

 

Hey Baron - with the automotive primers, do you find that they are too thick and cover fine detail?  I can see using it on large areas like fuselage bodies or ship hulls, but I'd be concerned with areas like wheel wells, cockpits, etc.  Not doubting you, serious question.

Thanks!

Jeff

 

If he doesn't notice,try your question on a new post 

(almost 3-yr old post, so not sure if anyone else is still monitoring...)

Hey Baron - with the automotive primers, do you find that they are too thick and cover fine detail?  I can see using it on large areas like fuselage bodies or ship hulls, but I'd be concerned with areas like wheel wells, cockpits, etc.  Not doubting you, serious question.

Thanks!

Jeff

Greg

I thought so too, and he has.

Egads.  I was wondering why I have not seen him of late. This needs to be fixed.

Bakster

 

 

Greg

He can't log in.

 

 

What! Stop the madness. I thought we were beyond that. Yes, we need him back. I hope he wrote FSM for help. 

 

I thought so too, and he has.

Greg

He can't log in.

What! Stop the madness. I thought we were beyond that. Yes, we need him back. I hope he wrote FSM for help. 

Bakster

Good thing he does not frequent this forum, or we might be in trouble. Tongue Tied

He can't log in. Shame, a great contributor here, he.

Greg

Shhh, don't tell Patrick but my Stynylrez sat for quite a while before I tried it. Oh, and it dries crazy-fast too.

Okay. I won't tell Patrick that you sat on it if you don't tell Patrick I am doing the same. Good thing he does not frequent this forum, or we might be in trouble. 

Crazy fast? Now that's just crazy. 

Bakster

I bought a bottle on your and Patrick's previous recommendation, Greg. I have yet to test it. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I need to test it. It sounds like the bomb.

I'm the same way trying new stuff, Steve.

Shhh, don't tell Patrick but my Stynylrez sat for quite a while before I tried it. Oh, and it dries crazy-fast too.

Greg

 

 

plasticjunkie

I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

 

 

After my go-round with MM so-called grey primer, I swore never to use a primer that didn't smell like solvent. And I didn't for 5 yrs.

Then an online FSM friend sent me a bottle of Stynylrez. He told me it was going to be a game-changer, and it is.

 

I bought a bottle on your and Patrick's previous recommendation, Greg. I have yet to test it. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I need to test it. It sounds like the bomb.

stikpusher

That is the source of your trouble right there. Model Master Acrylic Primer is just a gray acrylic paint, with all of Model Masters Acrylics’ associated characteristics: poor adhesion and durability.

See, there you go. When I had my problem with MM "Grey Primer" back in 2013, Stikpusher was the first to jump in and tell me what was going on.

5-6 yrs later and his advice is still sound.

plasticjunkie

I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

After my go-round with MM so-called grey primer, I swore never to use a primer that didn't smell like solvent. And I didn't for 5 yrs.

Then an online FSM friend sent me a bottle of Stynylrez. He told me it was going to be a game-changer, and it is.

Mr Ed

I used MM acrylic primer. I assumed primer should be thinned the same as paint. However, I did a test by brushing on paint it peeeled off as well.

 

That is the source of your trouble right there. Model Master Acrylic Primer is just a gray acrylic paint, with all of Model Masters Acrylics’ associated characteristics: poor adhesion and durability. Yes they have a fine color selection. But their shelf life sucks (on their site they say 3 to 5 years if stored properly), are usually translucent when handbrushed,  and the aforementioned adhesion and durability are weak. 

Im not a fan of rattle can primers myself due to lack of application control when compared to an airbrush. So I use different primers that can be airbrushed: Humbrol Enamel, Mr Surfacer, Tamiya Liquid Surface Primer (gray and white), and Mig One Shot. All have given me great results. Just be sure to clean your airbrush thoroughly immediately afterwards.

Greg

Almost ruined my first model back from hiatus with MM "grey primer".

Yea that grey stuff  is junk. No issues with solvent type primers. I keep hearing great things about that Badger acrylic primer Greg.

To add yet another cook to the too many cooks.....

Model Master primer doesn't work. I'll bet among those of us who use acryls, most have had the same problem as you. I have. Almost ruined my first model back from hiatus with MM "grey primer".

As so many have said above, do yourself a favor and use a real solvent-based primer like Tamiya Surface Primer, or Alclad, Mr Color, etc. Or if you're like me and don't want to use solvent-based, use Stynylrez as called out several times above. It's my new go-to. It is oderless, a pleasure to use, and will not pull up on you.

Good luck.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

I never use acrylic based primer. I prefer enamel based primer from a rattle can.

 

I used to too. Not now.

I never use acrylic based primer. I prefer enamel based primer from a rattle can.