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Washing with artist oils thinned with Turoenoid

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  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Washing with artist oils thinned with Turoenoid
Posted by Swboats on Monday, April 29, 2019 1:43 AM

I am working on my weathering skills and I am trying a wash of artist oils mixed with Turpenoid. I made the wash and applied it with a soft, flat brush. It ran into the nooks and crannies and looks fantastic! My question is...what now? Is it ever going to dry? I let it sit for several hours before wiping it lightly with a paper towel and it wiped up most of my wash. Will the Turpenoid eventually evaporate? How long dies it take? Will it affect my glue joints when I start putting the model together? All I've washed is the interior cockpit and wheel wells/landing gear. I won't wash the rest of the plane until I get it built, painted, and the gloss coat added for the decals. Then I'll do the finish matte coat.

Thanks in advance!

"Get mad at it!"

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, April 29, 2019 1:50 PM

You might want to try odorless mineral spirits to thin the oils. What brand artist oils are they ?

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 12:49 AM

I'm using Monte Mart Raw Umber and Weber Turpenoid Light. As I said, this is directly on top of MM Green Zinc Chromate. It looked great. Just takes forever to dry. You don't think the mineral spirits will eat through the acrylic?

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  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:37 AM

Do a test patch first but I doubt the odorless mineral spirits will eat through the MM acryl. Do you put a clear acrylic goss coat over the MM before the wash ( just curious)? I can say with confidence that oms does not eat through Pledge Floor Care ( clear gloss), least not before it dries.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:07 AM

Turpenoid is a more highly refined [white] mineral spirits solvent.   It is not made from turpentine.   I didn't know, so I googled it.   Turpenoid is recommended for thinning oil-based paints.   It has a less of a smell factor than spirits (i.e. less volatility).

Good old turpentine is distilled pine tree sap.   It is more agressive than spirits or turpenoid.  Also used for thinning oil based paints.   It is more smelly - that fresh pine tar scent

Where are you located?  What is the temperature & humidity?  Are you working in an air conditioned space?  

All of these factors will affect the evaporation of the solvent used.   Take your model outside and let the sun help evaporate some of the turpenoid.  

I regularly use turpenoid for thinning oil paints for pin washes over top af a clear gloss acrylic seal coat.   Organic spirits (turpentine, turpenoid, mineral spirits) can and will affect an unsealed underlying enamel paint layer

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:18 AM

Actually, googling further I found on the Windsor & Newton oil paint website a recommendation against using either turpentine or turpenoid  to thin oil paints.  Their recommmendation is that they should not be used includes discoloration of the paints (i.e. separation of the pigment mixture) and/or tacky paint film (i.e. not completely drying).  

According to Windsor & Newton, turpentine or turpenoid should only be used to clean brushes.   They recommend their own brand (of course they do) of Distilled Turpentine.  This is a arts & crafts store item - sold in the oil paint aisle.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:32 AM

Fact of the matter is that turpenoid and odorless mineral spirits are more similar than dissimilar anyway.

Just be sure it's not standard hardware store turpentine.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 8:46 AM

EdGrune

Actually, googling further I found on the Windsor & Newton oil paint website a recommendation against using either turpentine or turpenoid  to thin oil paints.  Their recommmendation is that they should not be used includes discoloration of the paints (i.e. separation of the pigment mixture) and/or tacky paint film (i.e. not completely drying).  

According to Windsor & Newton, turpentine or turpenoid should only be used to clean brushes.   They recommend their own brand (of course they do) of Distilled Turpentine.  This is a arts & crafts store item - sold in the oil paint aisle.

 

Hmmm, wonder how WN DT dries compared to the other products. Never tried it.

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 9:18 AM

oldermodelguy

Do a test patch first but I doubt the odorless mineral spirits will eat through the MM acryl. Do you put a clear acrylic goss coat over the MM before the wash ( just curious)? I can say with confidence that oms does not eat through Pledge Floor Care ( clear gloss), least not before it dries.

 

I will use Pledge before I do the wash all over the plane. For now, I've only done the inside of the cockpit and inside the wheel wells, and I did not use Pledge on those areas. They are still on the sprue, as I have not actually glued anything together yet.

"Get mad at it!"

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 9:26 AM

EdGrune

According to Windsor & Newton, turpentine or turpenoid should only be used to clean brushes.   They recommend their own brand (of course they do) of Distilled Turpentine.  This is a arts & crafts store item - sold in the oil paint aisle.

 

I am going the Turpenoid route because that's the suggestion given by Aaron Skinner of Fine Scale in the book, "Essential Skills for Scale Modelers." The  book doesn't say anything other than how to do it, though. So I don't have any idea of drying time or interaction with future glue joints. I think I'll just use some rubbing alcohol on the joints that need to be glued. That way I know for sure the solvent or CA is going to work properly. I will say that today, after 2 days of drying, I'm getting substantially less of a film on my finger when I touch a piece with the wash on it.

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  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 10:58 AM

Windsor Newton also sells a thinner called Sansodor ( sans-odor) that is for thinning their oil paints ( saw it at Amazon, kind of pricey).

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 12:17 PM

oldermodelguy

Windsor Newton also sells a thinner called Sansodor ( sans-odor) that is for thinning their oil paints ( saw it at Amazon, kind of pricey).

 

Are you a fan of Windsor Newton oils? If I'm being honest, I bought the cheapest oils I could find. My reasoning was that I am only using it for pigment. So any old oil would be fine for what I'm doing, as long as the color was what I wanted.

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 1:22 PM

Yes, generic oil paints work fine. Buy one of those sets of ten colors for about $ 20 and it'll keep you going for awhile.

I've never had a problem with a really diluted wash drying quite quickly. One thing that does take a little experimenting with is how long to leave it before you wipe at it.

I usually wait somewhere in the range of 15 to 30 minutes. Expect to go slowly with multiple applications.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 1:31 PM

Swboats

 

Are you a fan of Windsor Newton oils? If I'm being honest, I bought the cheapest oils I could find. My reasoning was that I am only using it for pigment. So any old oil would be fine for what I'm doing, as long as the color was what I wanted.

 

Any decent brand should work.

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 1:50 PM

Use lighter fluid for zippo lighters. Ant brand works.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 1:57 PM

MM that might not be a good idea to recommend to a new modeler. It strikes me as pretty dangerous. Definitely vent wherever you do it.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 2:26 PM

GM was the first to mention diluting enough. I'm inclined to agree with that and the thought that there simply might not now have been quite enough thinner in the wash. The OP is going on three days dry time here.

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 2:26 AM

**Update**

The wash finally dried. Took a full 48 hours. I agree with the need to take a look at drying times before wiping the excess. I actually liked the look BEFORE I wiped it lightly. I may have had some beginners luck with my dilution ratio and may end up not needing a lot of wiping done. 

On another note, I did my first successful dry brushing on an instrument panel today. It turned out way better than I expected! Why did I not take the time to do the detailing 30 plus years ago when I first started modeling? I suppose strapping rocket motors to them, launching them all over the neighborhood or blowing them up with Black Cat firecrackers doesn't require much detail work. <facepalm>

Thanks for all of the input guys! I really appreciate it!

"Get mad at it!"

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 2:48 AM

Swboats

**Update**

The wash finally dried. Took a full 48 hours. I agree with the need to take a look at drying times before wiping the excess. I actually liked the look BEFORE I wiped it lightly. I may have had some beginners luck with my dilution ratio and may end up not needing a lot of wiping done. 

On another note, I did my first successful dry brushing on an instrument panel today. It turned out way better than I expected! Why did I not take the time to do the detailing 30 plus years ago when I first started modeling? I suppose strapping rocket motors to them, launching them all over the neighborhood or blowing them up with Black Cat firecrackers doesn't require much detail work. <facepalm>

Thanks for all of the input guys! I really appreciate it!

 

Just a thought. Sometimes you can push the dry times along a bit with the use of a hair dryer, you might have knocked that dry time down a little at least by periodic blow drying ( just get it in the warm air stream and keep moving the dryer don't scorch it lol) . You don't want to push it too hard or you could get a bad effect.

 

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 6:10 AM

I use an acrylic wash for the cockpit and wells; oil pin wash for the outside.

For the acrylic wash, thin down the acrylic color with water and brush it on a SMALL area- it will dry fast, so don't attempt a large area! Dry your brush on a paper towel and soak up the extra wash, leaving some in the recesses of the model. Works on matte and flat finishes. 

The oil pin wash requires a gloss coat to work, it won't flow very well with a matte finish. Dilute the oil color with turpenoid and dot it into the intersection of panel lines. Getting the right thinness of the wash is the trick, if you do it right it will flow in the panel lines. After letting it dry for about 5 minutes, I take a Q tip dampened with turpenoid and wipe off the excess wash. Wipe in the direction of waterflow/rainfall, leaving subtle streaks. Look at pictures of aircraft parked outside, they have verticle streaks on the side of the fuselage where rain has washed the dirt. The dirt will accumulate near the underside where the rain drips off, leaving the dirt behind. Aircraft in intermediate blue and gray, such as a Wildcat or Dauntless show this well. If you don't overdo it it looks really good! I let it dry 24-48 hours, until the smell is gone, then top coat.

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Washington, Indiana
Posted by Swboats on Wednesday, May 1, 2019 6:25 AM

UnwaryPaladin

I use an acrylic wash for the cockpit and wells; oil pin wash for the outside.

For the acrylic wash, thin down the acrylic color with water and brush it on a SMALL area- it will dry fast, so don't attempt a large area! Dry your brush on a paper towel and soak up the extra wash, leaving some in the recesses of the model. Works on matte and flat finishes. 

The oil pin wash requires a gloss coat to work, it won't flow very well with a matte finish. Dilute the oil color with turpenoid and dot it into the intersection of panel lines. Getting the right thinness of the wash is the trick, if you do it right it will flow in the panel lines. After letting it dry for about 5 minutes, I take a Q tip dampened with turpenoid and wipe off the excess wash. Wipe in the direction of waterflow/rainfall, leaving subtle streaks. Look at pictures of aircraft parked outside, they have verticle streaks on the side of the fuselage where rain has washed the dirt. The dirt will accumulate near the underside where the rain drips off, leaving the dirt behind. Aircraft in intermediate blue and gray, such as a Wildcat or Dauntless show this well. If you don't overdo it it looks really good! I let it dry 24-48 hours, until the smell is gone, then top coat.

 

Thank you! That pretty much told me everything I needed to know!

"Get mad at it!"

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