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Airbrush trouble

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  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Friday, May 17, 2019 5:19 PM

bluenote

 

 
Greg

 

 
oldermodelguy
People want ratios, it's not about ratio, it's about proper viscosity.

 

That's it, I agree. I'm a rule guy. I like definitive solutions, like ratios. It took me a while to buy into the method we are talking about. I'd much rather have a hard and fast rule or ratio.  But after I decided that Aaron was on to something afterall, life with Vallejo and acrylics in general has been better.

 

 

 
I'm the same way, I like ratios.  I only use Tamiya, and it's very simple.  2 parts paint to 1 part thinner.  I use droppers, so I literally count the drops.  I do this right in the mixing cup, putting the thinner in first.  Shoot at 20 PSI.  Works perfect every single time.  
 
My biggest frustration with airbrushing when I started out was eyeballing, etc.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.  Every brand of paint was different too.  
 
This is why I only use one brand of paint now (Tamiya). No guessing, etc.  Once I switched to Tamiya, it really made airbrushing fun for me.  
 

 

Of course every brand is different. That’s why we need to figure out the paint:thinner ratio for each brand of paint. Not all paint brands follow the 2 part paint to 1 part thinner rule. Don’t get me wrong. I like Tamiya just as the next guy. The only knock I have with Tamiya is their limited color range and I don’t like mixing my paints to get a certain shade I need.

I have a total of about 8 or 9 different brands of paints (including Tamiya) of various colors in my stash both enamel and acrylics. You just need to experiment the ratio that works for each brand.

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by bluenote on Friday, May 17, 2019 11:17 AM

Greg

 

 
oldermodelguy
People want ratios, it's not about ratio, it's about proper viscosity.

 

That's it, I agree. I'm a rule guy. I like definitive solutions, like ratios. It took me a while to buy into the method we are talking about. I'd much rather have a hard and fast rule or ratio.  But after I decided that Aaron was on to something afterall, life with Vallejo and acrylics in general has been better.

 

 
I'm the same way, I like ratios.  I only use Tamiya, and it's very simple.  2 parts paint to 1 part thinner.  I use droppers, so I literally count the drops.  I do this right in the mixing cup, putting the thinner in first.  Shoot at 20 PSI.  Works perfect every single time.  
 
My biggest frustration with airbrushing when I started out was eyeballing, etc.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.  Every brand of paint was different too.  
 
This is why I only use one brand of paint now (Tamiya). No guessing, etc.  Once I switched to Tamiya, it really made airbrushing fun for me.  
  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, May 17, 2019 10:41 AM

oldermodelguy
People want ratios, it's not about ratio, it's about proper viscosity.

That's it, I agree. I'm a rule guy. I like definitive solutions, like ratios. It took me a while to buy into the method we are talking about. I'd much rather have a hard and fast rule or ratio.  But after I decided that Aaron was on to something afterall, life with Vallejo and acrylics in general has been better.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, May 17, 2019 10:37 AM

Fesan
I have these shot size solo cups i usually use for mixing since they are disposable should switch to glass one of these days

I acquired some of those just before I re-located for the winter. You just reminded me, I need to try them out.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:53 AM

Greg

Back in '12, FSM posted this video by Aaaron Skinner where he demonstrates how he thins paint for airbrushing. Sadly, it appears the video link might be dead. Can anyone find a way to bring it up?

It has been my thinning method since I first saw it.

Trying to describe what he said, dip a little stick or something (I use a flat toothpick) into you paint. Transfer a dab of paint to the side of your vessel (I mix in my paint cup, sorry, your vessel might be a mixing jar). If it sticks to the side, it is not thin enough. If the dot of paint breaks down and runs down the side, it is correctly thinned. Don't thin any futher.

It has worked well for me.

 

 

I use a flat plastic coffee stirrer, I think it came from Starbucks or someplace like that. But same routine as you basically Greg. 

See, that's why we don't have trouble shooting VJ paint ! But it works for other acrylics too. People want ratios, it's not about ratio, it's about proper viscosity. Course once someone knows a paint they will come to know what ratio makes that proper viscosity. In 1/1 painting we used to thin using a viscosity cup, which is a fancy name for a metered funnel with a specific outlet size. Fill the cup, when it was properly thinned it would empty/drain in x amount of seconds. In time we came to just know that drip rate off a mixing stick.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:28 AM

Fesan

 

 
Greg

Back in '12, FSM posted this video by Aaaron Skinner where he demonstrates how he thins paint for airbrushing. Sadly, it appears the link might be dead. Can anyone find a way to bring it up?

It has been my thinning method since I first saw it.

Trying to describe what he said, dip a little stick or something (I use a flat toothpick) into you paint. Transfer a dab of paint to the side of your vessel (I mix in my paint cup, sorry, your vessel might be a mixing jar). If it sticks to the side, it is not thin enough. If the dot of paint breaks down and runs down the side, it is correctly thinned. Don't thin any futher.

It has worked well for me.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this tip will try this later and see if there is any difference for me. I have these shot size solo cups i usually use for mixing since they are disposable should switch to glass one of these days

 

 

It will work, it's more or less what I do. That drop you place on the side of the cup should return down the side in 1-2 seconds or so and leave just a film behind as it goes. If it takes many seconds or won't run down it will do something between spatter or it won't spray. If it returns instantly but leaves a film it will spray but probably either be runny on the model or require many coats. If it returns instantly and leaves no film it will spray like cleaning fluid and not cover anything.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:47 AM

Greg

Back in '12, FSM posted this video by Aaaron Skinner where he demonstrates how he thins paint for airbrushing. Sadly, it appears the link might be dead. Can anyone find a way to bring it up?

It has been my thinning method since I first saw it.

Trying to describe what he said, dip a little stick or something (I use a flat toothpick) into you paint. Transfer a dab of paint to the side of your vessel (I mix in my paint cup, sorry, your vessel might be a mixing jar). If it sticks to the side, it is not thin enough. If the dot of paint breaks down and runs down the side, it is correctly thinned. Don't thin any futher.

It has worked well for me.

 

 

Thanks for this tip will try this later and see if there is any difference for me. I have these shot size solo cups i usually use for mixing since they are disposable should switch to glass one of these days

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:45 AM

oldermodelguy

Were they all really well mixed in the bottles ?

 

the model airs where mixed well in bottle half reason i was amazed they wouldnt atomize with how they where. The model colors where thick they took a good amount of mixing even before the thinning started to get movement from them

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:42 AM

Back in '12, FSM posted this video by Aaaron Skinner where he demonstrates how he thins paint for airbrushing. Sadly, it appears the video link might be dead. Can anyone find a way to bring it up?

It has been my thinning method since I first saw it.

Trying to describe what he said, dip a little stick or something (I use a flat toothpick) into you paint. Transfer a dab of paint to the side of your vessel (I mix in my paint cup, sorry, your vessel might be a mixing jar). If it sticks to the side, it is not thin enough. If the dot of paint breaks down and runs down the side, it is correctly thinned. Don't thin any futher.

It has worked well for me.

 

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:34 AM

Were they all really well mixed in the bottles ?

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:30 AM

oldermodelguy

I periodically polish up my airbrush needles with a piece of 000 steel wool. And check the tips that they are sharp and straight looking.

As far as paint, think milk lol ! Thin your paint to a similar viscosity and behavior, at least as a starting point, then tweek it from there. If it's already there then it should spray. Also try 22-23 psi working pessure to start with and tweek that from there as well ( working pressure is with the trigger pushed down on the airbrush and after the drop on your compressor gauge, adjust that with the air flowing). That combo should flow paint like crazy from a .35 nozzle when pulled back for full flow. I think Iwata suggests 15-20 psi as a good working pressure ultimately but there are conditions that can effect this, like atmosphere, altitude, paint viscosity. Just try bumping it up and see what happens with paint flow then.

 

i will try that when i get home if i got time. I figured it should atomize great if thinned correctly but 2-3 of the colors where a fight to get it to flow correctly. Surprisingly the red black model color took least thinning and flowed so good that the other 5 pissed me off.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:27 AM

Your needle probably fine, it's always worth a check over anyway. I periodically polish up my airbrush needles with a piece of 000 steel wool. And check the tips that they are sharp and straight looking.

As far as paint, think milk lol ! Thin your paint to a similar viscosity and behavior, at least as a starting point, then tweek it from there. If it's already there then it should spray. Also try 22-23 psi working pessure to start with and tweek that from there as well ( working pressure is with the trigger pushed down on the airbrush and after the drop on your compressor gauge, adjust that with the air flowing). That combo should flow paint like crazy from a .35 nozzle when pulled back for full flow. I think Iwata suggests 15-20 psi as a good working pressure ultimately but there are conditions that can effect this, like atmosphere, altitude, paint viscosity. Just try bumping it up and see what happens with paint flow then.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:22 AM

Checked the tip this morning before work i do not feel or see anything under my magnifying glass i have. I am just going to have to play with it more when i get a chance this adult thing known as work is really getting in the way of life right now lol.

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Somewhere in Ohio...
Posted by DasBeav on Thursday, May 16, 2019 10:07 PM

Just keep it at, Fesan. The spoons you painted actually like pretty nice from the photos. Alot of ABing is just getting experience. You are already way ahead of what I was when I started. Keep asking questions and watching videos on youtube. You'll get the hang of it. Even the Master Builder's around here have troubles with ABing.

Contrary to what some people say, VJ and VJMA are fine paints, reasonably priced, good variety, and relatively easy to buy. 95% of my paints are VJMA and couldn't be happier. 

 Sooner Born...Buckeye Bred.

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, May 16, 2019 9:53 PM

Sounds like you are doing everything basically right.

OMG's next question, how are you cleaning the brush between colors would have been my quesion too, and that too you seem to be doing exactly right.

Except, IMO 1:1 for model color shouldn't work at all. I don't spray a lot of model color, but when I get backed into a corner and have to, I pretty much start at 3:1 and add more thinner from there.

That said, I'm surprised you aren't saying the model air sprays pretty ok and the model color doesn't.

Still thinking........

I hate to say this, brand new airbrush and all, but have you inspected the needle tip under a glass? If you don't have a glass, you can rough it by pulling tip across your fingertip, and feel for a drag.

-Greg

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, May 16, 2019 9:40 PM

I’ve

Fesan

 

 
modelmaker66

What are you thinning with and what air pressure are you spraying at?

 

 

 

all 6 colors are different vallejo brands thinned with their airbrush thinner with a drop or 2 of their flow aid also. I was having a hell of a time to get them to mix and spray. The copper, red and sea blue almost had to be 2 parts thinner to 1 paint to even get a dribble of color to come out of the brush. Was running about 20 psi

 

 

Now you know why I hate Vallejo paints for airbrushing.... Model Color or Model Air... makes no difference. Time to find something a lot easier and forgiving to airbrush. Testors Model Master, Humbrol, Mission Model....

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 9:03 PM

DasBeav

Did you take off the nozzle tip and give the "innards" a scrubbing with thinner and a brush?(I use dental picks) Or a brush and a little thinner around the inside of the nozzle tip? Sometimes when I do my marathon painting sessions with my FrankenNeo with alot of different colors, even with flushing and cleaning, there still might be enough build-up of paint to mess you up.

 

I cleaned that also when I am done for the day i break the gun fully down and clean every little spot possible. Tomorrow ill check everything again before i give it a whirl again.  

  • Member since
    October 2016
  • From: Somewhere in Ohio...
Posted by DasBeav on Thursday, May 16, 2019 8:27 PM

Did you take off the nozzle tip and give the "innards" a scrubbing with thinner and a brush?(I use dental picks) Or a brush and a little thinner around the inside of the nozzle tip? Sometimes when I do my marathon painting sessions with my FrankenNeo with alot of different colors, even with flushing and cleaning, there still might be enough build-up of paint to mess you up.

 Sooner Born...Buckeye Bred.

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 7:10 PM

oldermodelguy

Are you 100% sure you have Model Air there and well mixed ? You haven't mixed up the needle and nozzles have you or do you just have the .35 set ( you had mentioned once wanting the .5, a .5 needle with a .35 nozzle would be interesting to deal with lol) ?

Some colors need more thinning than others, it's the nature of paints with pigments for color. FWIW thinner is usually better than thicker as long as it covers.

 

yes the bottles say model air and no mix up on needle nozzles did not pick up iwata conversion kit yet. I guess it just wants thin paint is all.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:57 PM

Are you 100% sure you have Model Air there and well mixed ? You haven't mixed up the needle and nozzles have you or do you just have the .35 set ( you had mentioned once wanting the .5, a .5 needle with a .35 nozzle would be interesting to deal with lol) ?

Some colors need more thinning than others, it's the nature of paints with pigments for color. FWIW thinner is usually better than thicker as long as it covers.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:44 PM

oldermodelguy

Describe how you cleaned the airbrush following your last painting sessions.

I'd expect Model Air to be able to spray through a .35 needle unthinned. And trhen thin for personal preference from there fwiw ( I like the silk like finish I get with MA with maybe 10% thinner added). I've shot it through a .25 needle unthinned as a test @ around 22lb or so with no issue. But I was using the Badger 200 single action brush not an Iwata double action....

 

I took everything apart and used the iwata cleaning kit with brushes and scrubbed down everything with the medea airbrush cleaner (iwatas cleaner). reassembled it and stored. When it came out for todays spray session (i store it in orginial foam inside the box) i added some water to it and flushed it out wiped it out again and added the model air paint first (spoons been primed for days with tamiya rattle can) the olive drab was actually first. It did not want to come out of the gun till it was thinned to about 1:1. The copper model color was just thick so i thinned it naturally and it sprayed beautiful at 1:1. Others where hit or miss on how much they wanted for thinning. I also clean brush and back flush between every color change.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:36 PM

Fesan

 

 
Tojo72
Whatever works for you,its not an exact science.
 

 

 

I am having severe issues getting it to work. The thinning process was a fight to get them to mix and spray. I am still learning loads so probably something i am doing wrong.

 

 

ahh,I was looking at your results thinking it was working,not realizing you were having severe problems getting there.

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:30 PM

Are you mixing in the gun cup,or another container?  If in the cup, try mixing in another container to avoid getting thicker unthinned paint coming out before you get into the thinned stuff.

MC I can run through my Neo .35 at around 2 - 2 1/2 parts thinner to 1 part color.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:24 PM

Describe how you cleaned the airbrush following your last painting sessions.

I'd expect Model Air to be able to spray through a .35 needle unthinned. And then thin for personal preference from there, fwiw ( I like the silk like finish I get with MA with maybe 10% thinner added). I've shot it through a .25 needle unthinned as a test @ around 22-23lb working pressure or so with no issue. But I was using the Badger 200 single action brush not an Iwata double action....

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:28 PM

Greg

Do you have Vallejo Model Air or Model Color?

 

the paint was both air and model. The olive drab and yellow khaki where model air. The other 4 where model color.  

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:17 PM

Do you have Vallejo Model Air or Model Color?

-Greg

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:11 PM

Tojo72
Whatever works for you,its not an exact science.
 

I am having severe issues getting it to work. The thinning process was a fight to get them to mix and spray. I am still learning loads so probably something i am doing wrong.

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by Fesan on Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:10 PM

modelmaker66

What are you thinning with and what air pressure are you spraying at?

 

all 6 colors are different vallejo brands thinned with their airbrush thinner with a drop or 2 of their flow aid also. I was having a hell of a time to get them to mix and spray. The copper, red and sea blue almost had to be 2 parts thinner to 1 paint to even get a dribble of color to come out of the brush. Was running about 20 psi

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:00 PM

What are you thinning with and what air pressure are you spraying at?

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