New Airbrushes question - Badger Patriot 105 and Patriot Extreme 105

Yes sir, polishing does help. I understand if someone hesitates to try it but once you've done it a time or two there's nothing to it.

I don't know about that bottle of Stynylrez. Yeh it sat for years but this wasn't the first time I used it. Maybe I just didn't mix it enough that day. Next time I'll be more thorough.  

I polish my airbush needles too, smooth is a good thing.

Stynylrez if it's sat around likes a good stirring with a stick even if you don't see it through the bottle. Then shake it up good.

Whewww, I'm just glad I didn't break this place. 

I don't know why that's happening. I don't thin Stynylrez either and I've shot it through a .3mm setup. I don't usually but I have. 

There's a brand of airbrush that I started to try years ago but didn't. Watching a lot of YouTube videos this spring I saw quite a few people using them and extolling their virtues. lol  I'm sure you know how that works. BUT, I saw that Spraygunner both sells and supports them so I took a look. Well, wonder of wonders they happened to have a "returned" example at a significant mark down so I bought it. Still under warranty. 

Looked like new when I got it. I screwed on a QD, dumped in some paint I had already thinned and, it wouldn't spray worth a darn. Hardly at all. And I use pretty thin lacquer normally. I started to just return it but, figured I may as well tear it apart. I found some dried up flakes of black paint, I was using yellow green, in the front of the brush and the nozzle. Cleaned it out, reassembled and it sprayed pretty well at first. Then it started spitting and sputtering. I was getting tip dry from a fairly thin lacquer. Wiped it off and tried again. Same thing. Tried again but watched the spray under a magnifying glass. I could see the paint form a ring around the needle just ahead of the nozzle. Dumped the paint, pulled the needle and under the magnifier I could see a faint ring around the needle. When the needle was forward the ring was well ahead of the nozzle so I don't know how it got there. Maybe just a manufacturing defect. I polished the needle using some fine grit sandpaper to start and progressed to polishing cloths. That cured it. Sprays like a champ now and I don't feel like those youtubers were lying to me. Lol   And yes, I've shot Stynylrez through it. 

The bottle of Stynylrez I had trouble with last week is about 4 years old but it hadn't been opened till this year. I've polished the needle in my 105. That's standard practice for me. I don't know why it started acting up but I did have tip dry, you could see it. Maybe it's shelf life expired, I don't know. 

Mrchntmarine

tks again wingman_kz..... Another follow up.... So I had a chance to spray again, this time tamiya acrylic thinned - not 50/50 - but maybe 1 thinner to 3 paint. psi at 20-22. no bubbles. so maybe its just what I have to do with this brush. as mentioned the Extreme will spray the paint straight w/ no bubbling. Anyhow I guess I have a new SOP when using the 105 - THIN the paint. FWIW I have yet to try any enamels with it so no comment there.

 

I hate to keep harping on it but I'd still try a dab of Chapstick on the tip taper and shoot that Stynylrez straight again, see what happens. I just had a few bubble with my .3 tip in my DA which has a beat up seal on that tip, screw in tip, and that's what I did, worked fine. Course that was just a tip change and checking with straight alcohol that it sprayed ok. There shouldn't be bubbles imo. Just sayin.

Course it doesn't hurt Stynylrez any to thin it a little bit but you really shouldn't need it with a .5 on there. Anyway, I prime with my H mostly. I'll shut up now lol !!

tks again wingman_kz..... Another follow up.... So I had a chance to spray again, this time tamiya acrylic thinned - not 50/50 - but maybe 1 thinner to 3 paint. psi at 20-22. no bubbles. so maybe its just what I have to do with this brush. as mentioned the Extreme will spray the paint straight w/ no bubbling. Anyhow I guess I have a new SOP when using the 105 - THIN the paint. FWIW I have yet to try any enamels with it so no comment there.

hulkctn

The article titled "Badger Patriot 105 Review" will be informative.

 

Tks for the tip.  Unless i missed something in the article, like another link or something, it just seems to say that its a good brush and advertises the site and an airbrush holder. Not any detailed info much other than smooth trigger pull and nice paint cap, sorry to say. 

The article titled "Badger Patriot 105 Review" will be informative.

Yes. Or you can grab the ball on the end of the needle. There are cutaways there too. But if by chance the needle chuck isn't snug you could pull the needle out or back and possibly not realize it. Try pulling the trigger all the way back and then try pulling the nut on the needle chuck back and you should find that there's still some travel. You arent going to hurt anything, everything is threaded together and that's why it's made that way. So you can pull back to blow out a clog. Hopefully.  

You can push down for air then back all the way with the trigger and then, while holding that position, use your other hand to pull back on the knurled chuck nut or the ball on the back end of the needle. 

Or, you can pull the chuck nut or needle back and then press the trigger for air.

Either way, never let go and let it snap forward. Don't do that with the trigger either. 

Wingman_kz

BTW, you may find that you can pull the needle further back by grabbing the chuck nut through the cutaway in the handle and pulling back than just by pulling back the trigger. That's why it's there.

Tks. Not sure I understand grabbing the chuck nut...  Do you mean to grab and pull it then spray?  Wouldn't that be like trying to pull the tube shaft out?

Ok, you've proven that your 105 works correctly under the right conditions. Accept the fact that, at least with this bottle, you're going to need to thin your Stynylrez a little to make it work. Or maybe turn up the pressure even more. Or maybe even both.

My 105 was doing the same thing last week with Stynylrez. Maybe it was because this bottle was old. Maybe I didn't mix it enough. I don't know. It happens. So I went off target, pulled the needle all the way back, blew it out and kept spraying. BTW, you may find that you can pull the needle further back by grabbing the chuck nut through the cutaway in the handle and pulling back than just by pulling back the trigger. That's why it's there. And yes, when the compressor kicks in you may see a pressure drop. If you're already having problems that pressure drop can make it worse. Or, maybe you were right on the edge of having a problem and the pressure drop made it show up.

So, either thin your paint or turn up the air or both. It can happen with any paint or medium but realize that water based acrylics can be problematic. Good luck.

Mrchntmarine

 

I did have a paper towell with some water and alcohol to wipe the tip.  But the bubbles would still come and go....

 

so, just now, i went back to the 105 and sprayed some Tamiya acrlyic with some thinner.  Probably a little thicker than the 2% milk thing and i put the psi to 22. 

 

 It shouldn't blow back making bubbles anyway, typically if your air is too low you will get spatter on the surface, too high you get center blow out on the surface at the given distance you spray from. Too thick you might get no flow at all . Bubbles is either restriction at the tip or air leaking by the tip seat, cracked tip etc. I mentioned before, take the tip out, wax the tapered seat and put it back together, see what happens then. Lip balm, bees ways, fly tying dubbing wax will all work. That's what I'd do next if it were mine. If it fixes it you got a choice, keep doing that or contact Badger.

 

I don't have a lot of airbrush experience, but it seems like tip dry to me. I spray in an unfinished mostly unconditioned basement. I say mostly because I have a hybrid hot water heater that uses a heat pump, which keeps the basement fairly cool and dry in the summer. The furnace and steam pipes keep it somewhat warm in the winter. However with the hotter weather we've been having in CT, it's not that cool down there and I noticed my paint isn't spraying the same as it was a month ago.

 

I was having the same problem you were with my dual action Iwata. I kept having to use a q-tip dampened with thinner to clean the tip. I'd pull the trigger back without pressing as to not release air, and insert the q-tip in the tip to clean it. The bubbles would then stop. Its the same principle as back flushing when the tip dries. You're blocking the airflow, which forces it back into the cup. 

 

I was using Vallejo paint btw and painting extremely close to the surface. I've noticed when I paint to close to the surface, I get some blow back. Sometimes the inside of the tip will be covered in whatever color I'm spraying. 

oldermodelguy

 

 

Mrchntmarine

Tks for the feedback OMG.  I was careful to follow the primer instructions and i used the recommended .5 needle.

 

It really should shoot nice through that. Other folks here say they shoot everything they do on a model with that needle size on their 105. I use a 200 or Paasche H though personally with Stynylrez. The 200 has manageable sized screw in nozzles. Course the H is external mix. My double action I keep a .3 on.

Just curious, when you started to get bubbles did you swab out the air cap with a little alcohol on a Qtip or something ? Maybe you did have a touch of tip dry, the stuff dries quick if you set your brush aside for a minute.

 

Mrchntmarine

Tks for the feedback OMG.  I was careful to follow the primer instructions and i used the recommended .5 needle.

 

It really should shoot nice through that. Other folks here say they shoot everything they do on a model with that needle size on their 105. I use a 200 or Paasche H though personally with Stynylrez. The 200 has manageable sized screw in nozzles is why and I don't need DA to spray primer... Course the H is external mix. My double action I keep a .3 on right now, which by the way gave me some tiny bubbles then it started pulsing it's spray. A little smear of ChapStick ended that..

Just curious, when you started to get bubbles did you swab out the air cap with a little alcohol on a Qtip or something ? Maybe you did have a touch of tip dry, the stuff dries quick if you set your brush aside for a minute.

Sorry about your delemma. Usally bunnle is a sign a seal is bad or not tight on the nozzle. I love Badger but maybe it is time for you to look elsehere. Maybe an Iwata cr+ would be good.

Tks for the feedback OMG.  I was careful to follow the primer instructions and i used the recommended .5 needle.

Mrchntmarine

so i opted to send the Patriot 105 back to Badger.  They replaced needle seat and cleaned it up.  They said some paint had backed up to the insides - guessing when i had used it before i knew that the needle was not all the way in.  Got it back a week or so ago.

 

ANOTHER QUESTION PLEASE - today i sprayed some badger stynylrez primer.  For the 1st 10-15 seconds ok.  They the primer started to bubble in the cup.  I think it coincides with when the compressor kicks on - not sure.  Didnt notice any dry tip.  To get it going again i give full pressure and pull the trigger all the way back.  Then i spray a little and more bubbles.

is there anything else to check?  Badger says the primer doesnt need to be thinned and i was sure to spray it at 22 psi - although id like to use less pressure but in trying to stop the bubbles it was recommended to use a higher pressure.

The airbush was clean as new, all fittings seemed snug or tight and needle was all the way inserted.

After priming i cleaned w/ laquer thinner and sprayed some water from 22psi all the way to 8psi and no bubbling.

 

Any more things to check / suggestions please???  Id like to get this solved...  

 

Thanks very much for any help.

 

I only thin Stynylrez a little if I want to run it through a fine needle set like my .25. I can't help but think if you're still getting bubbles with paint then Badger didn't get to the heart of the problem.If you bring this back up to them they might just give you a new airbrush.

so i opted to send the Patriot 105 back to Badger.  They replaced needle seat and cleaned it up.  They said some paint had backed up to the insides - guessing when i had used it before i knew that the needle was not all the way in.  Got it back a week or so ago.

 

ANOTHER QUESTION PLEASE - today i sprayed some badger stynylrez primer.  For the 1st 10-15 seconds ok.  They the primer started to bubble in the cup.  I think it coincides with when the compressor kicks on - not sure.  Didnt notice any dry tip.  To get it going again i give full pressure and pull the trigger all the way back.  Then i spray a little and more bubbles.

is there anything else to check?  Badger says the primer doesnt need to be thinned and i was sure to spray it at 22 psi - although id like to use less pressure but in trying to stop the bubbles it was recommended to use a higher pressure.

The airbush was clean as new, all fittings seemed snug or tight and needle was all the way inserted.

After priming i cleaned w/ laquer thinner and sprayed some water from 22psi all the way to 8psi and no bubbling.

 

Any more things to check / suggestions please???  Id like to get this solved...  

 

Thanks very much for any help.

Try spraying some water or thinner and see what happens. If no bubbles, thin the paint. If it does bubble then, since it's new, I'd send it to Badger and let them sort it out.

Mrchntmarine

 

Ok, I thought i had it good as i had found 2 small leaks - 1 at the adapter fitting between the hose and the regulator(Badger regulator and Pasche hose) and 1 on the quick release fitting adapter.  Also has a squished "O" ring i noticed when i took the regulator hose adapter off.  But then I did some spraying and got the bubbling in the cup again.  The tip seems good with no build up.  Not to be funny, i only have a badger chart to go by and im not that familair with the part names.  I do not see  "nozzle" but would like to add some chapstick to try that.  Would that be the threaded end of the Head?  If so, I have followed the service tech's advise to me  to snug that part down w/ pliars.  But i can remove and use some chapstick.  The Spray Regulator is only hand snugged.  The needle tip looks good and seems to be straight and the Paint Tip seems to be seated properly.  No bubbling with the Extreme model.  Tks much......

 

To me the nozzle is the cone the paint actually flows out of, that the needle protrudes out through ( commonly called the tip). It's a tapered fit in the 105 ( I admittely prefer screw in ones like the old style 100 or 200 have). Sometimes they can get a tiny scratch or ridge, the wax seals it. But if it's not seating tight to begin with that's another matter. Bees wax is awesome stuff around airbrushes ( well and toilet bowls to the out pipe lol) but go easy with pliers.

Tks wingman - no o rings on the spray regulator or the head. Removed everything again and just checked. next time I use it I'm gonna thin the paint 1st and see what happens then. 

Sorry, but I'm on my phone and have to use quick reply. It seems to do away with paragraphs.

The first part that screws off the front is the air cap. The second part that screws off is the nozzle cap. That may not be the correct term but it's what holds the nozzle in place so that's what I'm going with. You can take them off together or separately. The double cone shaped piece that you can remove once you've taken the caps off is the nozzle or tip. And of course there's the needle. The taper of the cones on the nozzle are supposed to center and seal the nozzle when the nozzle cap is screwed on. There may or may not be an o ring on the threads of that cap. My first Badger, a 360, never had that o ring. It isn't necessary. If anything it may keep that cap from snuggling up. Not to go against the tech but finger tight should be enough for both caps. Try slipping that o ring off if there is one there and assemble things finger tight. The hole in the front of the nozzle cap fits over the cone on the front of the nozzle and the rear cone fits in the paint passage in the body of the brush. When you tighten that cap the cones should seal without any beeswax or anything else. Where you would possibly use beeswax is on an airbrush that uses a screw in nozzle or on the threads of the cap that holds it. I can loosen the nozzle cap on my 105 about a quarter of turn before I get bubbles in the cup and I can loosen the air cap almost a half turn before I get bubbles. I can remember the nozzle cap being difficult to tighten with that o ring so I took it off and had no problems afterwards. I don't remember getting bubbles in the cup but that was 10 years ago so... I'm sorry I didn't mention that before. But again, finger tight should be good and if you use pliers, be very gentle. :-)

oldermodelguy

A common spot for an air leak is the fit between the nozzle and where it seats. A common remedy is a light coat of bees wax or chapstick on that taper of the nozzle. ..........

Ok, I thought i had it good as i had found 2 small leaks - 1 at the adapter fitting between the hose and the regulator(Badger regulator and Pasche hose) and 1 on the quick release fitting adapter.  Also has a squished "O" ring i noticed when i took the regulator hose adapter off.  But then I did some spraying and got the bubbling in the cup again.  The tip seems good with no build up.  Not to be funny, i only have a badger chart to go by and im not that familair with the part names.  I do not see  "nozzle" but would like to add some chapstick to try that.  Would that be the threaded end of the Head?  If so, I have followed the service tech's advise to me  to snug that part down w/ pliars.  But i can remove and use some chapstick.  The Spray Regulator is only hand snugged.  The needle tip looks good and seems to be straight and the Paint Tip seems to be seated properly.  No bubbling with the Extreme model.  Tks much......

I'm glad you got it worked out. Several years ago someone gifted me 3 brand new Badgers. A 100LG, 105 and an Omni 4000. Actually a Thayer Chandler. None of them would spray correctly. I fiddled and fiddled with them and then one day I was tearing apart the 105 and found a little white shaving inside the air cap. It looked like a piece of whatever they make the needle seals out of. Turned out that the passage from air valve to the front of the brush had those little shavings in them on all the brushes. Got them cleaned out and they worked ok.

Never assume that because the AB is new that the needle is properly seated and no cleaning is needed. A brand new AB may have some metals junk (as in your case) from machining and assembling and packing lubricants.

It's a great idea to take apart a new ab to clean and flush out things removing any lubricant used for shipping and storage then assemble and properly fit the needle to get a good seal.

Now you will have a couple of air brushes that will last you a lifetime. I have several Badgers and my oldest one goes back to the mid 1970s and still operates like new.

 

just thought id give an update....  so as mentioned, no dry tip and having removed the piece of shaving.  What i have noticed is that thinning vs no thinning makes a difference.  But i also noticed - recently i replaced my stool w/ a seat and am much closer to my bench.  I noticed that bc i am closer to the bench and now tend to tilt my brush more bc of the adapter and quick release i added to these brushes and not having a lot of paint in the cup may have caused the brush to be sucking some air...  I also found a small leak at the adapter connection - wondered my the compressor kept kicking in.  so i think im good for now.  we'll see 

Mrchntmarine

 

 

There is no build up on the tip.  I have been keeping a paper towell with some water and a dab of alcohol and keep wiping the tip from time to time while spraying.  Maybe ill try to thin the paint more even though the few people ive asked, and aki, say thinning is not necessary.  Id like to spray at a lower pressure too so maybe the thinning will help.

 

Paint bubbles is usually tip dry or an air leak. A common spot for an air leak is the fit between the nozzle and where it seats. A common remedy is a light coat of bees wax or chapstick on that taper of the nozzle. It both aids in sealing and disassembly later on vs having a stuck nozzle. Tip dry gives a similar effect as putting your finger over the front of the airbrush when back flushing, thus bubbles. A clogged nozzle does nothing, that is to say no bubble but also no paint delivery. Just sayin..........

As long as the parts on the front of the brush are seated and tightened correctly, finger tight, and the end of the nozzle or needle hasn't been damaged about all that's left is the paint. You could take a close look at the end of the nozzle and see if it's cracked or split. Take a look at the needle and see if it's damaged. I don't use water based acrylics often so I don't have much experience with them. I use MM Acryl occasionally. With them, you can use one bottle or color and it's fine, straight out of the bottle. Pick another, and you have an instant clog. But add a couple drops of thinner and you're good. If tip dry isn't the problem then it's clogging and stopping up before the paint comes through the nozzle. I see a lot of people say they do use paints without thinning so they have to use higher air pressure. Or larger needle/nozzle combinations. The standard 105 setup is already pretty generous so, if nothing is damaged then turn up the air or thin the paint.