Trying to get this color / technique question

I'm just bumping the thread, I don't know enough about this aircraft to really comment. Course it's probably reconditioned so who knows what they did anyway. Maybe someone will come along who can help more.

oldermodelguy

I'm just bumping the thread, I don't know enough about this aircraft to really comment. Course it's probably reconditioned so who knows what they did anyway. Maybe someone will come along who can help more.

 

That airplane is (or should be) gloss black, not blue. It is a Westland Lysander and was used for night drops of agents and supplies in enemy territory.

Space Ranger

 

 

oldermodelguy

I'm just bumping the thread, I don't know enough about this aircraft to really comment. Course it's probably reconditioned so who knows what they did anyway. Maybe someone will come along who can help more.

 

 

 

 

That airplane is (or should be) gloss black, not blue. It is a Westland Lysander and was used for night drops of agents and supplies in enemy territory.

 

 

Ya, the museum photo I saw of one was very high gloss black. I don't know the OP's intent here but if he is modeling this specific aircraft in the photo he posted, it's clearly not gloss. I'd say it's faded black or dark matt-satin grey. Any blue casting I bet is environmental. Like under the wings seems to be a green cast in the black under the wings.. Up top is probably daylight or even sky mixing in.

My choice in Tamiya acrylics would be XF-69 NATO Black. True black looks 'too' black in most real-world applications. XF-69 is a super-dark anthracite color that mimics 'big scale' daylight on a black-painted surface. It also weathers well.

Cheers

Thanks guys. I forgot the most important, one of anyway, reason of the post.....  1st - I'm bad with colors and I have a hard time there. I know the night mission planes were black and have seen some, a, reconditioned one as pictured but to me it looks to be a shade of a dark blue and glossy. Some old clips ive seen are in b&w so no good there. As gregbale states, black seems too black. 2nd - what i was thinking with the blue and forgot to mention - maybe using that under a black to add some interest and to be not so black but help with some shading if you will. I'll look at the NATO black. Lastly, in the test strip I did, I don't use gloss paints too much, is it common to be able to rub the dry paint and get some to rub off?  Curious. 

gregbale

My choice in Tamiya acrylics would be XF-69 NATO Black. True black looks 'too' black in most real-world applications. XF-69 is a super-dark anthracite color that mimics 'big scale' daylight on a black-painted surface. It also weathers well.

Cheers

 

But scale effect is important.

Bill

Mrchntmarine

Thanks guys. I forgot the most important, one of anyway, reason of the post.....  1st - I'm bad with colors and I have a hard time there. I know the night mission planes were black and have seen some, a, reconditioned one as pictured but to me it looks to be a shade of a dark blue and glossy. Some old clips ive seen are in b&w so no good there. As gregbale states, black seems too black. 2nd - what i was thinking with the blue and forgot to mention - maybe using that under a black to add some interest and to be not so black but help with some shading if you will. I'll look at the NATO black. Lastly, in the test strip I did, I don't use gloss paints too much, is it common to be able to rub the dry paint and get some to rub off?  Curious. 

 

Computer monitors vary too. I think the blue you see in the black is daylight reflections, uv effects, sky, grass etc. But, big but, non the less but, black lacquer as it fades can leave a bluish oxidation. Old cars used to do this as the gloss broke down, it left a kind of bluish purple motor oil looking effect. I've tried to model that more than once but nothing works like the real deal. And unless really broken down this could be polished out. I don't know if dope did that, nitrocelulos lacquer did for sure. You know who had something close in the day was Floquil paints.

The closest I ever got on my own was shooting clear blue over black. Even better with a touch of clear red mixed into the blue. I'd really need to revisit that though, it's been years since undertaking this task.

The original source photo could be either bluish film like Ektachrome, or digital and off a little.

Bill

Mrchntmarine

I picked up some of the NATO black. to check it out. Maybe ill do that w/ a gloss overcoat???

Sounds like a plan!

Or...with all that nice rib detail on the sides...you could lightly dry-brush with a slightly-lighter shade of your base color, before you apply your gloss coat. Not so much to weather -- as was pointed out, doped surfaces tend to be pretty stable color-wise -- but more to mimic natural light highlights on a textured surface. You could drybrush downward, just flicking the rib edges for a subtle effect.

Or not, as you prefer!

Cheers

Tks greg!  I havent even started yet - dying to though....  I have done a plane so ive been doing a lot of looking around.  Some have really mastered the cockpit - been watching some plasmo videos on youtube.  Also order of assembly.  I also picked up some micro masking for the cockpit glass - but there the directions are not too clear.  Seems hard to me to mask the whole glass area then to have to cut away to paint the metal trim - seems like a good way to cut up the clear plastic.  Wm

That's a masking technique I never had much luck with. For me, it's easier and cleaner to cut tiny strips to lay along those edges, trimming as necessary. Burnish them down well with a toothpick.

When the masking is done, brush or spray on clear gloss to seal the edges so you won't have "paint creep" (paint sucked under the tape by capillary action). Then just paint as usual.

I think I might try your way - I haven't inspected them yet, but the kit comes with masks. Ive spent the last hour reading the directions and staring...  I can't decide to prime or not 1st or assemble then prime.  Then there's the cockpit - 110 little pieces all different colors. Geese, the guy on YouTube made it look so easy. 

For weathering those gloss black finishes, I use flat white and dial the paint flow way back so I can just dust on a transparent coat.  I put it on heaviest on top of wings, empanage and fuselage top.  Then I come around and do a lighter coat on sides of fuselage.  Creates a variable amount of paint chalking from top to bottom.  Areas out of sunlight didn't chalk nearly as fast as those areas in sun much of day.

This also fades sheens- flat on top, semi on sides, and still glossy on bottom.

Hey, Mrchntmarine, As soon as I saw the pic, I thought of a color by Vallejo called "Black Green." It's essentially black with a hint of green. However, the green appearance of the paint may simply be a reflection of all the grass and trees around the plane along with the effect of the camera, film, processing, and the problem with getting computers to interpret color photographs precisely. Someone here said it should be gloss black. I think you're probably closer to the true color of the plane to follow that advice. But if you want the green hue, I suggest giving the vallejo color a look. Barrett

I saw this at the Shuttleworth Collection Lysander under restoration several years ago, & it has a definate glossy sheen.

Someone refresh my memory, is there an RAF/Humbrol colour called Night Black?

It 'may' have had the faintest blue-ish tinge?

Tamiya NATO black is a good choice to start with though.