lets talk about enamels please!

I'm surprised, I had no luck with acrylics and found enamels a breeze as long as the brush is clean.

I use Model Master enamels almost exclusively. Iv'e tried acrylics, but they don't work well for me. They spray OK, except for tip dry, but I have had too many problems with paint lifting when masked. For broad coverage with MM, I thin about 3 paint to 1 thinner and spray at 20-25 psi. For camo patterns I thin the paint more, about 2:1, and lower the pressure to 10-15 psi. I use the MM thinner even though it's kinda expensive as it seems to work better than other thinners Iv'e tried. For clean up, I use only lacquer thinner.

plum, i clean my brush religiously so i dont think its that. the hp-cs was brand new when i sprayed the enamel through it.

rjk, what type of airbrush do you use?

I spray both enamels and acrylics with no problems at all, and I use the same simple rules with both. I just thin to the consistency of "milk" (skim, whole, 2%... I don't know. Milk!) with the manufacturer's thinner.
Nooooo problems!

You took the words right out of my mouth. I also thin to the consistency of milk with manufacturer's thinner, and I get nice thin lines.

Chris, I have a Paasche H and an Iwata HP-CR.

and you guys can do close in spraying with the milk deal? ive heard that rule of thumb before and it just comes out in little spatters in all 3 of my airbrushes at that consistancy at 10 to 12 psi.

oh well, i guess its just the lack of practice with the enamels showing through. ill go back and practice with it some more. thanks guys, later.

I haven't had that much luck using mineral spirits for thinning MM paints (which I use almost exclusive - got too much invested in them to switch). The mixture doesn't clabber or anything like that but just doesn't seem to go on right and dries entirely too quickly (even in the bottle).

For years I've been using Dupont 3812S Enamel reducer for my enamels and have had great luck with it. Granted it's more expensive than mineral spirits (Last gallon cost me $12.95 which is a whole lot cheaper than a gallon of MM thinner) but I can get in the local auto supply store and a gallon will last me about a year.

For general airbrushing I thin 50/50 and apply with 16/20 psi air pressure. For fine lines and weathering (exhaust stains etc), I thin up to 30/60 (paint to thinner) and vary the air pressure 10/16 psi.

Hope this helps a little

hey quince, im glad you said that. i was in the auto supply the other day buying some oil and slipped over to the paint section and saw some of the dupont products. i also saw some virgin laquer thinner and virgin mineral spirits. anybody gotta clue as to what that is? anyway, i might go and buy a quart of the dupont stuff and try it if i dont get the results im looking for with MM thinner. thanks, later.

and you guys can do close in spraying with the milk deal? ive heard that rule of thumb before and it just comes out in little spatters in all 3 of my airbrushes at that consistancy at 10 to 12 psi....


There is one of your problems right there Saltydog. I use a Paasche VL and go by the milk rule also. I use MM and Boyds enamels exclusievly. You have to use around 20 to 25 PSI inorder for it to not sputter and splatter. Any lower and you will need to thin down the mix more. I have seenalot of good work done with the acrylics but I don't like the way they ghost through any mold lines in the palstic. The enamels do take longer to dry but I feel its worth the results to wait...not to mention the dry time gives you time to work on another part of the model

I just recently painted the cammo on a 72nd scale spitfire with MM enamels. What I found that I needed was to mix the paint pretty thin, a hair thinner than I thought I needed to, like skim milk, but maybe a bit thinner. Then I started spraying test lines on my huge drawing pad that I use for a work area. If it comes out too spattery, I add thinner (I use laquer thinner from wally world to thin and clean with) one drop at a time until I get a good tight line with no spatters. If it comes out too wet, I add paint a drop at a time as well. I found that I had to adjust bit by bit as I worked, it was only a single drop of one or the other to get me just right again. I stirred the paint in the color cup with a tooth pick and had no problems at all. While I was painting, if the color started not covering, I'd add paint, if it started getting spattery, I'd add thinner. Was that any help at all?

QUOTE: There is one of your problems right there Saltydog. I use a Paasche VL and go by the milk rule also. I use MM and Boyds enamels exclusievly. You have to use around 20 to 25 PSI inorder for it to not sputter and splatter

ive tried every ratio at differ psi increments to test the mixture. the results are the same. i'm gonna have time tonight to practice some more so ill post a bit later. 20 psi seems a bit much for that mixture but i use and iwata hp-c or hp-cs. theres a difference in sweet spots with every airbrush.

QUOTE: Was that any help at all?

that lets me know that im not alone in my tweaking josh!! thats my point though, i can throw in a batch of properly thinned tamiya acrylic and within seconds i have the line im looking for. i've tried everything that i know to try to get it with the enamels. maybe im being too picky. if it ain't painted right, i just cant be satisfied with my build. im not gonna let this beat me, now the above posters give there satisfactory reports on using enamels, darn the torpedo's, full speed ahead!! later.

alright fellows, i just got back from the workbench and i ran some more tests with the testors airbrush thinner for enamels and mm enamel dark tan. i finally got what i was looking for on the second try with the iwata hp-c. i mixed 1:1 first and could get a consistant fine line at just under 10psi. i mixed in 8 drops of paint and 12 drops of thinner and couldn't achieve a consistant spray pattern until i cranked the pressure down to around 6 psi. i know yall are probably thinking WHO THE HECK SPRAYS AT THAT PSI?!! for one thing, my guage may not be telling the truth, but the regulator puts out steady air where ever the needle on my guage is reading. the eclipse hp-cs is lagging behind a little as i couldn't achieve the consistant fine line. oh, i could get the same fine line, but it was much easier with the hp-c. now mind you i bought the .4mm needle/nozzle conversion kit for my hp-c and my eclipse has the .35mm n/n combo. thats why i would be interested in seeing what a revolution would do. josh, you have one, how do you like it? thanks once again guys, yours posts encouraged me to keep trudging away at it. i finally getting a little happier about mm enamels for the 1st time since ive been in this hobby. later.

Hey no problem...

One little trick for mixing enamels is a 50/30 ratio. For example if you use syphon jars like i do and you were going to mix up alot of paint for a large body you would fill the bottle half way which would be 50%. Then eyeing the jar fill up another 30%of it with thinner. drop in 2 bb's and shake well. comes out pretty good every time. I know your using color cups but it works just the same.

I like my Revolution very well. I did the cammo on my spit, and I think it looks great, it's a soft line, but still very distinct with nice seperation between the colors. It took me a bit of experimentation to get it right and a teeney bit of touching up, but it's my first cammo job I'm very pleased. I'll borrow a camera (not a digital sadly) and take some pics to send you. I might also add that the spit is 72nd scale and very small.

excellent, i'll be waiting on the edge of my seat josh!!

Okay, I got pics taken, but I don't know how good they'll be. The camera doesn't have a lens for close up stuff, but I think it'll be okay. I got one of the spit next to my airbrush, so you have a better idea of the scale. I also took some pics of my A7-e cockpit in progress.

I went to the airshow yesterday and got several good pics there. All that remains is to have all these developed and put onto cd (and heal from the sunburn) . The P-47 that was there was the same one I took pics of in Galveston last month, so I got several more pics of it with the cowl on this time. I was able to crawl underneath it and get wheel well and gear mechanisim and flap hinge pics as well. The coolest thing was that I got to talk to the pilot, and he did me the favor of taking my camera and taking 5 or 10 excellent closeup cockpit photos!! After I have these developed, I'll email you the spit ones. If you want, I got good detail shots of a P-51 you can have also.
Also, if anyone needs any P-47 pics, I have great ones I'd be happy to mail some
.

sounds great josh! im always game for P-51 pit photo's. i wonder how close to original it was? later.

It looked pretty good, but it's hard to say for sure on something like that. Once I have the pics, I'll hunt down the real aircraft and double check as best I can. It was a beautiful bird for sure though. The Thunderbirds were awesome as always!

Saltydog,

It's very ironic you started this post when you did, I was going to start the same topic, with the same delema, and airbrush.....how wierd! Anyway dude, It sounds like you came to the same conclusion as I did. What I did specifically was similar to your final experiment; except I had a brand new Iwata HP-C with the (.3mm nozzle/needle) I was itch'in to spray the camo with. What I finally came up with that simulated the free-hand "tight blended" demarcration lines for my 1/72nd scale A-7D was the following:

1. I thinned *brand new bottles of MM Dark Tan, Dark Green, and Medium Green enamels 1:1 with T.R.P.S. (Turpintine Replacement Paint Solvent) Available from your local home or Sherman Williams chain.
2. Strained the paint through panty hose and stirred it well
3. I dropped the air pressure to approx. 10 psi
I got "THE FINEST", softest, atomization of any of my Iwatas I'd ever seen yet. I was very impressed to say the least. I had no over spray, no spattering, no clogs, no spitting at all....it was effortless! Shocking becuse the small nozzle/needle size of the HP-C has been long thought of as not designed for or ideal to shoot our hobby paints.

A few observations: With spraying thinner paint, It took longer to build-up the color, but the extra coats didn't hide or deminish. The airbrush was easier to clean due to the high thinner to paint ratio, and the lower pressure allowed for slower, deliberate and steadier spraying of the camo. Anyone with an HP-C give it a shot!

hey greg, i just got through spraying the cammo pattern on my israeli F-16A with my hp-c and hp-cs. i put the factory .3mm n/n combo back in today just to do some experimentation with different thinning ratio's. i had the same result as before but i was thinned with testors airbrush thinner for mm enamels at 3 parts thinner and 2 parts paint. personally, id rather build my paint up than try to spray it all at once. i did well with the said thinning ratio with my hp-cs and hp-c with .4mm n/n combo. i think its about getting used to a particular product and just sticking with it and learning all the little characteristics of the beast. its getting much easier the longer i play with it. like i say, i just finished the cammo on the bird im doing now, but i got another cammo F-5E tiger II coming in right behind it in a few days and im gonna use enamels on it too. that will give me ever further practice. i'm pumped with the results that i have on the current bird. ill be posting the pics in about a week on the a/c thread. im slowly getting there with the enamels and im glad because i sure have plenty of colors in the stuff. thats encouraging to hear my friend, i'll have to try some of the turpentine your talking about. ive seen it in the hardware store here so ill pick up a quart and try it. thanks, later.

Excellent! I'll be updating my web page in next few days with my finished A-7D finished with the HP-C. (see www. thread below) Good luck with the F-5E... cant wait to see pics. Later.