Moving on from Testors MM Paint?

This brings up a problem I see at judging at local and regional contests.  Judges get together to judge, and there is always a know-it-all loudmouth in the group that has a strong influence on other judges.  Instead of a group of judges, the results end up being the result of one judge.  I have advocated in local contests for a rule requiring each judge to work by himself without other judges around, or if people must judge in groups a rule that judges must keep their thoughts to themselves.

Tanker-Builder

Oldermodelguy;

       Now you know why I don't enter in shows anymore. I painted a Liberian Tanker " Soot Black" and they said it was wrong. That was a match to the photos of the ship that I took in Good Light( daytime). I repainted it Semi-Gloss Black and Won the class in the next show,and an extra ribbon for Best Paint, So you see, you are right!

 

LOL guys . I remember a show in Tennessee I enter a King Tiger and it did not even make a 3rd place. Later I found out the judges didn’t like weathering but factory fresh finishes. I noticed it right away when none of the weathered tanks scored.  

About a year later I entered the same model in a different show and won Gold 1st place in Axis 1/35 AFV category. Still it’s fun competing even if one doesn’t win.

A good friend of mine is collecting sand from USMC battlefields and must have several dozen jars.

they range from white to black.

The day the vehicle rolls out into the sun, the color and saturation starts changing.  The way it changes depends on the location.  I vehicle dwelling in the tropics will weather different than one in Alaska.

I weather most of my models, so I allow considerable leeway in the basic colors, since they wont stay that way anyway.

Hi Don!

 Yes, you are right. Now cars and most planes are not really affected to much by this. But take a photo of a Muddy, Dirty Tank and try to duplicate it. If you use the colors you think the mud is, invariably you get it to dark. Mud is a funny beast. It can vary in color too. Especially, If sand and clay are involved!

Tanker-Builder

 

       YES, Boys and Girls.The paint out of the Bottle, Tube or other container are ideal specifications, NOT what should be used on the actual model. YOU must, Like the museums do-Adjust for scale and lighting!

 

I think these things are not really a must.  Scale effect is only appropirate for scale viewing distances of hundreds of feet.  With cars and planes this is is very seldom appropriate.  Multiply about two feet by the divisor of the scale to get the scale viewing distances.  I do consider it for ships 350th or smaller, and 144th aircraft, but not otherwise.

Tanker-Builder

YES, Boys and Girls.The paint out of the Bottle, Tube or other container are ideal specifications, NOT what should be used on the actual model. YOU must, Like the museums do-Adjust for scale and lighting!

I haven't found that to be true.  I've sprayed 3 brands of the same FS color and found them to be wildly different.   Having ventured down the frustrating path of authenticity, I've decided to take a look at historical photos, find one I like and try to get close.  Even real airplanes in AF museums don't look like line aircraft.  

Oldermodelguy;

       Now you know why I don't enter in shows anymore. I painted a Liberian Tanker " Soot Black" and they said it was wrong. That was a match to the photos of the ship that I took in Good Light( daytime). I repainted it Semi-Gloss Black and Won the class in the next show,and an extra ribbon for Best Paint, So you see, you are right!

Sometimes the chips themselves aren't even faithful anymore due to age. A formula might be but that depends on the base colors and tint accuracy. To me close enough really is clse enough. If my minds eye is happy so be it. When you're aim is to please someone elses minds eye then all bets are off anyway.

stikpusher

 

 

Tanker-Builder

YES, Boys and Girls.The paint out of the Bottle, Tube or other container are ideal specifications, NOT what should be used on the actual model. YOU must, Like the museums do-Adjust for scale and lighting!

 

 

Not really. There is no "must" do for painting in the hobby. Some brands do adjust for scale, and some of us like our paints as they look from the bottle or tin. Besides, with most any weathering technique in use, the end color will not be the same as when it's first applied to the model. Not to mention that not every paint manufacturer's paint is an exact match to the government paint standard color chip in the first place. There are way too many variables in play to say that modelers must do certain things in every case of painting. 

 

  Environmental conditions, time in service, maintenance activities, etc. all have an effect on the paint on real-world subjects.  No two will ever be alike.

Tanker-Builder

YES, Boys and Girls.The paint out of the Bottle, Tube or other container are ideal specifications, NOT what should be used on the actual model. YOU must, Like the museums do-Adjust for scale and lighting!

Not really. There is no "must" do for painting in the hobby. Some brands do adjust for scale, and some of us like our paints as they look from the bottle or tin. Besides, with most any weathering technique in use, the end color will not be the same as when it's first applied to the model. Not to mention that not every paint manufacturer's paint is an exact match to the government paint standard color chip in the first place. There are way too many variables in play to say that modelers must do certain things in every case of painting. 

I have NOT moved on;

         Yes, I have added Tamiya and A.K. Interactive along with some Vallejo, But I will still use TESTORS as my main Go To paint. I was mixing to Military Spec. for years before they brought out Model Master.

          During that time I had also gone to Humbrol tins for most of my Sailing ship and Motoryacht models. The thing I find confusing is the constant comments about thinner to use with the different brands. You know, Plain old Mineral spirits worked great with my Humbrol and Tesstors-Still does!

      To solve that problem with the different ones is, I bought the recommended thinners, retarders and stuff like that, for each brand. I still keep going back to my mixer with cleaned out M.M. bottles and make my own according to the Fed.Specs for each color with the adjustment for scale in the tint.

       YES, Boys and Girls.The paint out of the Bottle, Tube or other container are ideal specifications, NOT what should be used on the actual model. YOU must, Like the museums do-Adjust for scale and lighting!

Don Stauffer

And Testors enamels are still here- only the military paints of FS colors are gone.  If you want to try mixing your own (and there are tricks to that) you can still use Testors enamels. 

Yes, the little square bottles are still around. Their OD is matched to 34087, Flat Tan is 30277, Flat Gray is 36270, and their red and yellow match Insignia Red and Insignia Yellow respectively. Basicly they have turned back the clock 40 years to before they released the Model Master line. But why mix paints for all the other subtly different colors? All it takes is one slight difference while mixing and two batches will not be the same. Not a big deal on two separate kits, but on a single project, that can be an issue. Humbrol and Revell provide the appropriate military colors in their lines. My builds are 99.7% military, so I need military colors, preferably pre mixed.

stikpusher

 

 

Mrchntmarine

2nd this....  Just returned from LHS and they 2 large displays of revell - enamal and Aqua something or another - their acrylic line....  Interesting square containers for the acrylics...  Ive never used these, but right now i have about 3 or 4 different brands and not sure i can handle another for now.  I wonder how they work?

 

 

Revell enamels are great. I brought some back from overseas many years ago and LOVE them. And like any other enamel, they work just fine with standard hardware store thinner, or brand thinners such as Testors Airbrush.

 

And Testors enamels are still here- only the military paints of FS colors are gone.  If you want to try mixing your own (and there are tricks to that) you can still use Testors enamels.  On the good side, they have added some new bare metal colors.

Mrchntmarine

2nd this....  Just returned from LHS and they 2 large displays of revell - enamal and Aqua something or another - their acrylic line....  Interesting square containers for the acrylics...  Ive never used these, but right now i have about 3 or 4 different brands and not sure i can handle another for now.  I wonder how they work?

Revell enamels are great. I brought some back from overseas many years ago and LOVE them. And like any other enamel, they work just fine with standard hardware store thinner, or brand thinners such as Testors Airbrush.

I tried a sample of the Mig Ammo paints and it did not turn out well! After 3 days, the paint is still soft and uncured and rubbed off easily with my finger! I used a few drops of their thinner when I sprayed and found it went on splotchy and uneven, as if the paint and thinner were not compatable. What did I do wrong?

jimbot58

Revell paints have shown up at my LHS, both the acrylics and the "email" (as the container is labeled) or enamal to others. They tell me more products are coming soon as well!

 

2nd this....  Just returned from LHS and they 2 large displays of revell - enamal and Aqua something or another - their acrylic line....  Interesting square containers for the acrylics...  Ive never used these, but right now i have about 3 or 4 different brands and not sure i can handle another for now.  I wonder how they work?

Eaglecash867

Order some MRP paint from Sprue Brothers or HobbyWorld USA for your airbrushing needs.  You won't have adhesion problems anymore.  nudge, nudge 

 

I will look into that as there are more Phantoms to be built - yes, I love Phantoms.

Order some MRP paint from Sprue Brothers or HobbyWorld USA for your airbrushing needs.  You won't have adhesion problems anymore.  nudge, nudge 

I did shoot the entire body of the Phantom with the AK paint, and though it went on well, I do find it has a bit of trouble with adhesion and the paint would lift when I was masking unless I was absolutely carful about "de-stickying" the Tamiya tape on my wrist before aplying. I did use the entire bottle to paint but I always tend to mix way too much and waste a lot. I think the old MM had better coverage but no point in ctying any more about that. I just used the regular Mr. Thinner and I need to get some of the leveling type, but it was not in stock ay my LHS. 

I like AK Real Color High Compatibility thinner...it doesn't have a strong oder.  I usually thin 3-4:1 thinner to AK Real Color paints.  If you like to "roll your own" colors, Tamiya is a great choice in paints as well.

I have used Mr Color Leveling Thinner with AK...wear the mask and open that window...but you'll experience effortless spraying.

jimbot58

My latest project of the minute is a Fujimi F-4K British Phantom "Yellow Tails" and the color call out for the main color is a RAF Extra Dark Sea Grey BS381C/640. I have a bottle left over from the MM II line of paints in a Dark Sea Grey which I assumed is the equivalent.

Actually, they are different colors, hence the different names. Humbrol makes both colors if you have access to the Humbrol paint line. Extra Dark Sea Grey BSC381C/640 is Humbrol 123, Dark Sea Grey BSC381C/638 is Humbrol 164.

jimbot58

My latest project of the minute is a Fujimi F-4K British Phantom "Yellow Tails" and the color call out for the main color is a RAF Extra Dark Sea Grey BS381C/640. I have a bottle left over from the MM II line of paints in a Dark Sea Grey which I assumed is the equivalent. I started spraying some of the parts with this paint but my airbrush soon clogged! I ran the rest of the bottle through a filter and even though I mixed and stired thoroughly, I found the paint to be full of lumps, many as small as grains of sand! More than enough to clog things up! No more of this paint!

Whoa, Nelly... the only problem why you're getting sandy grain-like sediments settling at the bottom of your bottle is it's been sitting for a really long time... I mean a reeeeeeaaaaally long time.

I had a couple of Pollyscale brand paint colors that had what you describe. Had to toss them. Buy a fresh bottle of the Dark Grey and I can guarantee you will not have the sandy grits or lumps.  

My last gloss dark sea  blue Testors Model Master enamel bottle went bad so I ordered some MCW enamel FS 15042. Read good reviews and are suppossed to be like the discontinued MM enamels. 

The Revell enamel paints are good to use. I've had a few that I've obtained during trips to Europe and have really liked how they worked. But I've never tried their acrylics. I'm curious to see how those will work.

Revell paints have shown up at my LHS, both the acrylics and the "email" (as the container is labeled) or enamal to others. They tell me more products are coming soon as well!

Tojo72

 

 

plasticjunkie

 

 

Tojo72

Mission Models are good too,lots of choices now.

 

 

 

 

Yes Mission Models is good too but unless you use primer it scratches very easily. I found out by accident on a build but luckily the scratches added to the weathering process and looked good. 

Mr. Thinner is fantastic and works great with both Tamiya and Ak paints.

 

 

 

 

Yes I only like the enamel or lacquer type primers

 

plasticjunkie

 

 

Tojo72

Mission Models are good too,lots of choices now.

 

 

 

 

Yes Mission Models is good too but unless you use primer it scratches very easily. I found out by accident on a build but luckily the scratches added to the weathering process and looked good. 

Mr. Thinner is fantastic and works great with both Tamiya and Ak paints.

 

Yes I only like the enamel or lacquer type primers

Tojo72

Mission Models are good too,lots of choices now.

 

Yes Mission Models is good too but unless you use primer it scratches very easily. I found out by accident on a build but luckily the scratches added to the weathering process and looked good. 

Mr. Thinner is fantastic and works great with both Tamiya and Ak paints.