FS colors vs what looks correct

Don Stauffer

Depends on the age.  It was only in seventies and eighties that really good environmentally resistant paints became available.

True, but even the less resistant paints tended to get lighter, not darker. 

Eaglecash867

I don't think there are too many common environmental factors that are going to cause a paint color on a military aircraft to become darker though...with the exception of radome paint of course.  

 

Depends on the age.  It was only in seventies and eighties that really good environmentally resistant paints became available.

I don't think there are too many common environmental factors that are going to cause a paint color on a military aircraft to become darker though...with the exception of radome paint of course.  

One last point to consider is your specific subject. If you're building a Blue Angels or Thunderbirds aircraft, there's a good chance that aircraft will be pretty pristine in appearance and match the paint specs. If you're building one of the late Rolling Thunder F-105s, you have a lot more leeway on colors due to age and environmental wear and tear. The FS matched color is a starting point, but not a good idea for the end result. 

Totally agree with the Baron here.   FS, RLM/RAL, BSC and ANA colors are just suggestions, especially for model paints.   Some manufacturers do better than others,  some paint colors are easier to match than others.

Even with paints obtained under government contract may not totally match the spec.   The sample may match within so much percent of the spec and be within tolerance (been there, done that).  But accurate, on Monday, at dusk, in partial overcast -- ehh not so much.   An aircraft delivered in spec finish begins to age as soon as it rolls out of the paint booth.  And woe is the crew chief who must do spot corrosion control to an operational airframe using the stock of Rustoleum he picked up at the local hardware store before deployment.

Use a spec as a starting point, then do what pleases your eye.

MJY65

...Do you try to use FS colors when available, or just substitute to make it look right?  Obviously, the authenticity factor goes out the window with the variation among paint manufacturers, either way. 

I take FS numbers and the paint callouts in instructions as suggestions, not Scripture. Wherever I can, I get photographic references, and I eyeball the colors, and I go for what looks right to my eye.  Some modelers choose to follow the color standards as directions, and more power to them.  Same goes for panel lines, weathering.  Build what you like, the way you like.

oldermodelguy

Very true, can't argue with that. My above post was just an observation.

There are several problems with color accuracy.  The printing industry has struggled with color printing for over a century.  Even today inks for printing presses cannot represent fully all colors our eye can see. Color photography was notoriously inaccurate- each brand and type of film had its own color biases.  Digital cams are much better but there are still problems depending on format image is stored as.

Lastly, older paints, from first 3/4 of 20th century began to change color as soon as the vehicle is exposed to the uv in sunlight.  So, I try and retain some color accuacy, but do not obcess over it.

Eaglecash867

The 71.079 does look about right, but the paint Vallejo claims to be FS30219 (71.125 USAF Brown) definitely looks too brown like what MJY65 is seeing.  That makes it difficult if you're using TO 1-1-4 as your color reference and their FS paints don't match that.

 

Very true, can't argue with that. My above post was just an observation.

The 71.079 does look about right, but the paint Vallejo claims to be FS30219 (71.125 USAF Brown) definitely looks too brown like what MJY65 is seeing.  That makes it difficult if you're using TO 1-1-4 as your color reference and their FS paints don't match that.

stikpusher

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vallejo Model Air Tierra 71.079 Tan Earth is about a dead ringer for the tan in both the above photos, close enough for me. Sprays beautiful too. I cut it about 1/4-1/3 or so with a blend I make up of Liquitex products ( that's a story all in itself that in a dry climate probably would need extra retarder). It's not greatly effected by the color under it, so light primer, medium or dark it can be toned only slightly, after a third light coat it might not matter.. Super fine pigments,using a fine tip a little paint goes a long ways by doing mist coats.. I like that paint a lot. It does take a lot of flushing to get it all out of the airbrush though.

I basically only have the earthy colors, not a complete set so I can't make that comparison. It's just funny, these photos got posted and I thought to myself hey I just shot that almost exact color.

Well, aside from the different brands, there is age fading difference on the top two. The top one is Humbrol, while the middle is Model Master. The Humbrol was photographed immediately upon completion, while the Model Master was many years after, and had accumulated actual direct sunlight and dust affecting the paint over those years. I think that the A-7 I did with the old Model Master Acrylics, their original Acryl line. That one also had a few years between build and photography, but not as many as the A-1.

^^^

My color terminology is probably wrong in saying "yellow".  It's the color I'm seeing in your top photo when compared to the middle. 

I haven't seen Mission Models' or Vallejo's 30219, so I cant comment on eith company's take on the color. But I have used Humbrol's, Model Master's, and Polly Scale's versions, and all are very close to one another, and brownish with perhaps the slightest pinkish or reddish hue to it. I've seen plenty of the real stuff in person back in the day, and it never had a yellow tone to my eye.

MJY65

At least on my monitor, your colors are very close to the real thing.  Nice work.  What masking technique did you use between colors?  

Thanks!  I've been pretty happy with those old Model Master enamel rattle cans...still have lots of it sealed up in little Mason jars.

For masking, I used frisket film which I made reversed patterns for from scans of the kit painting instructions.  I reversed the patterns and distorted them to fit the real-world model that I took pics of.  With them reversed, I was then able to print them on the frisket backing paper and use the printed lines as a guide for cutting them.  After I had them stuck on the model, I followed the edges with little snakes of BlueTack that I lightly pressed down to get a feathered edge between colors.

Here are a couple of mid-progress pics that show the masking stages.

I've mainly mixed my own colors over the years...though I'm happy enough to use a pre-mixed shade, when it's convenient (or more likely when I actually remember to order or pick some up).

However, I picked up an 'index' set of the FS595 chips back in the '70s...before they cost an arm and a leg and another leg...and found them most useful for my home-mixes. Best thing was that they showed the proper tones and hues -- whether, for instance, a 'plain gray' actually had a bluish tone, a greener one, or even a pinkish cast. I didn't mix precisely to the chips (allowing for the well-known 'scale effect'), but it was great shorthand for knowing which way to go with component colors.

I will throw in another observation, FWIW: if you're dealing with a multi-hue camouflage scheme like the typical SEA F-111 colors, it's often less critical to precisely match individual colors, than to get the relative tones of one color to another correct. I think we've all seen illustrations of models...or even builds at shows...where one color in a multi-color scheme just 'jumps out' as being too 'something.' Conversely, when the 'relative' shades are dialed-in, even slightly 'off' colors can look right.

Unfortunately, that's something that only an experienced 'eye' can tell; you can't really get it out of a jar [or single-drop dispenser bottle ].

^^^

At least on my monitor, your colors are very close to the real thing.  Nice work.  What masking technique did you use between colors?  

Not sure what your Mission and Vallejo look like, but the tan on these F-111E wings is Model Master Enamel FS30219 that I decanted from one of their rattle cans.

I tried Vallejo paints on my other project, an FB-111A, once and even their color that was supposed to be FS34159 looked brown.  It didn't look anything like the nice blue-green that its supposed to be, which Model Master Enamel from a rattle can also did a pretty good job replicating.  Needless to say, I don't use Vallejo Model Air for that very reason.