Three strikes, you’re out!

Patrick, thanks for additional information on induction. Very interesting.

patrick206

and by the way I have been using Leveling thinner for a while now, but rely mostly on IPA or X20-A. Even though I have an effective spray booth and fan/filter setup, the El Stinko factor of Leveling Thinner is rather obnoxious while mixing.

Yup. This is why I had migrated away from the leveling thinner, that being the fumes. And that is why I hoped the Badger primer would work, less obnoxious. I have a good system too but there is always some exposure during the process. I go to great lengths to minimize it. Even tonight I revamped my spray booth to minimize air leaks into my work invironment. My booth is almost a closed system. We shall see how much what I did improves things. For the most part, I don't use enamels either. For the project I am working on though, my local hobby store didn't have the colors I wanted in acrylic. I had to settle on enamels. Long story short, for the most part, I will limit the leveling thinner to when I must use lacquer or enamel.

Thank again for the explanation about the paint.

Steve -

In the sixties I was half owner of a Cessna 210, I took care of any paint repairs that were needed, mostly paint chips from takeoff and landings with particles on the runway hitting the finish. While learning and using the paint application I saw the reference to induction, as a supplement about the paint system. The paint was DuPont Imron, a polyurethane system.

The difference induction made was subtle, but decidedly effective. Sprayed over a larger area, I could see that the paint layed on smoother and settled right down. With polyurethane paint applied to an aircraft there is no "adjusting" mixing amounts, the activator is a critical element and is to be measured accurately.

Same with model painting for me, I see a more predictably good paint layer being applied when I do my mixing, then waiting for those few minutes before actually laying the spray on.

I'll say it's even more noticeable when using straight enamel, although I have completely abandoned that from my inventory. Just how much someone else might notice it is questionable, but I use the method and am happy to continue as I do find it beneficial.

If I had to guess what induction literally means relative to paint solutions, perhaps it's an opportunity for the mixed ingredients to chemically blend more completely. But that's just a SWAG on my part, cuz I ain't no danged expert.

Glad you like using your new Mr. Color system, and by the way I have been using Leveling thinner for a while now, but rely mostly on IPA or X20-A. Even though I have an effective spray booth and fan/filter setup, the El Stinko factor of Leveling Thinner is rather obnoxious while mixing.

Patrick   

goldhammer88

Forgot to add....just a light scuff, just enough to take the sheen off.  Easy to go through thin layers of primer. As it wears, gets softer, and easier to get into tight areas, ie. Fuselage and lower wing around a wing strut.  For me, at least 4 times faster than sanding.

As it wears, might shed some fibers that can get stuck in a tight area.  Just check and  pull them out before color.

 

This sounds like good stuff. I will pick some up to try. 

Forgot to add....just a light scuff, just enough to take the sheen off.  Easy to go through thin layers of primer. As it wears, gets softer, and easier to get into tight areas, ie. Fuselage and lower wing around a wing strut.  For me, at least 4 times faster than sanding.

As it wears, might shed some fibers that can get stuck in a tight area.  Just check and  pull them out before color.

Good advice, GH. I will look into it...

Eaglecash867

The sandability of both is great.

I just took a look at the body and holy man, I am impressed. 98% of it is near glass smooth. And yeah, it preserved the detail very well. I had one or two problem areas that had some sand papering. They were in odd corners where I would expect it. I sanded them out, no problem. This is cool stuff. I have used Tamiya Surface Primer before and I have to say that I might like this better. Too early to tell but I am impressed as all heck.

patrick206

One bit of info about something I read a very long time ago, that I use to this day, is called "induction," regarding preparation of paint for spraying. That specifies a period of time after thinning and mixing, 20-30 minutes, prior to actually painting the subject. Whatever that word "induction" means relative to a mixed paint blend I don't really know, but I'll say it does make a difference for me. After it sits for those few minutes, I re-stir the mix so the surface doesn't have the chance to form a little skim layer.

I don't think it would serve quite the same purpose for our paints that dry by evaporation of solvent vs automotive paint where you mix a base with an accelerator/catalyst.  

Good to know it's working for you.

As for areas that need minimal sanding or scuffing up prior to colors going on, go to most any auto parts store and get a couple of grey scotchbrite pads.  Puts just enough "tooth" in the primer to get better paint adhesion, especially if you are doing multiple colors and have had any pull-up on the prior color.

Can be cut into narrow strips with the pair of scissors or an old #11 blade that's Lost enough edge to nothing be used on a kit anymore. Can get into tight corners as well.

Glad to see you're happy with your new primer, Bakster!  I started using that Mr. Surfacer stuff after finally getting fed up with the Model Master lacquer primer that I was using at the time.  When I shot a lacquer primer from my airbrush for the first time and saw the consistent results and super thin primer layer that preserved even the most delicate of details, I was hooked.  You'll love how decanted Tamiya shoots as well.

The sandability of both is great.  Mr. Surfacer makes a really good filler/putty for areas that are surrounded by fine details you don't want to lose.  You just use a brush and dab it into the areas you want to fill, wait a couple of hours, and then gently sand it smooth...or smooth it with a q-tip just barely damp with their Leveling Thinner.  I have also used Tamiya primer just recently in my airbrush to level out an area that I had accidentally chipped the paint on.  Took the paint all the way to the bare plastic in that one little spot with that screw-up.  Just gave it quick little spurts of primer to build it up, sanded it smooth, and painted.  Can't even see the repair.  Otherwise it would have broken my heart...all the time I spent masking, undercoating, Alcladding, masking, and painting my F-4B stabilator almost wrecked by the slip of a tool.  Tamiya primer to the rescue with its awesome filling and sanding properties!  

oldermodelguy

Awesome, let us know how it goes for you !

Just did! Thanks my friend.

patrick206

Hey, Steve -

Ya know, there's a lot of good info winding it's way through this post, it's been very informative for me, thanks go to you and the responses from so many others. Just for the sake of keeping up with the newer developments in paint products, I'll check on Spray Gunners site and order some of the surfacer you bought.

One bit of info about something I read a very long time ago, that I use to this day, is called "induction," regarding preparation of paint for spraying. That specifies a period of time after thinning and mixing, 20-30 minutes, prior to actually painting the subject. Whatever that word "induction" means relative to a mixed paint blend I don't really know, but I'll say it does make a difference for me. After it sits for those few minutes, I re-stir the mix so the surface doesn't have the chance to form a little skim layer.

I do hope you'll keep us posted about your use of the new products you received, I'm really interested. Thanks again.

Patrick

 

Hey Patrick, thanks for the encouragement. Also, thanks for the info about induction. I  never heard that term with regard to paint and I'd like to know more. I am assuming that the waiting period allows the paint/thinner mix to fully assimilate? Would that be your understanding? Secondly, you say it makes a difference. Can you quantify the difference you are seeing? Very interested.

Lastly, it is great to hear that you ordered some of this primer. If you don't already have it, and/or, if you didn't order it, I encourage you to get some of their leveling thinner. I have used it before and it does make a difference leveling paint. Btw. I have used their leveling thinner with enamels and even acrylics. In all three cases, it allows you to put the paint on wet. That translates to less orange peel. For enamels, its huge, because it allows your to draw out a high shine.

How did the primer perform today? Awesomely! It sprayed like silk! The paint hit the model wet, it dries fast, and it had fairly good coverage. I might have over thinned it reducing coverage but I am not sure. I thinned close to a 50/50 mix. In any event, it was a pleasure to use. The primer atomised beautifully, and I didn't have to wipe the tip once. There was a little buildup towards the back of the tip, and it had no affect on the spray. I can not speak to sandibility yet, nor durabiliy, but I have no reason to think it won't perform. And with the leveling thinner, the paint went on very smooth. There will be minimal sanding. Cleanup was straight forward. I used hardware store lacquer for that and I had no issues.

In short, it worked very well! Thanks to those in this thread that recommended it.

I guess if there is a drawback to it, it would be the fuming. But that comes with the territory.

Oh, I should mention that I used my Badger 155 siphon dual action for today's paint session. So for my project, I will do a once over looking for issues, then hit it with enamel. I will use the leveler for that.

Bakster

 

So, I received my order from Spray Gunner. I am very pleased with their quick turn. It probably came on Wednesday, but I didn't notice it on the stoop until Thursday. Btw. I ordered something else from them and they shipped it on the very next day as well. Awesome service indeed.

Below: I am pleased with the size of the primer. I was visualizing something smaller. I should be good to go for awhile. I will try spraying it tomorrow.

I made a trip to Dollar General and I found some things. I purchased some shoebox sized containers that should be a good size to either store a finished car kit or, to temporarily store a freshly painted kit keeping it from dust. 

On top of the box are some glass jars. I thought these would be good for making Eaglecashes decanting system. The one lid has holes that might work well for degassing, and l like too that these have handles to them. Not shown in the image are several bags of plastics spoons that I can use for test sprays. I also bought things like chocolates, napkins, floss, and all of this for only $11 and change. Such a deal.

Anyhow, tomorrow I test the new primer. 

Awesome, let us know how it goes for you !

Hey, Steve -

Ya know, there's a lot of good info winding it's way through this post, it's been very informative for me, thanks go to you and the responses from so many others. Just for the sake of keeping up with the newer developments in paint products, I'll check on Spray Gunners site and order some of the surfacer you bought.

One bit of info about something I read a very long time ago, that I use to this day, is called "induction," regarding preparation of paint for spraying. That specifies a period of time after thinning and mixing, 20-30 minutes, prior to actually painting the subject. Whatever that word "induction" means relative to a mixed paint blend I don't really know, but I'll say it does make a difference for me. After it sits for those few minutes, I re-stir the mix so the surface doesn't have the chance to form a little skim layer.

I do hope you'll keep us posted about your use of the new products you received, I'm really interested. Thanks again.

Patrick

Eaglecash867

 

 

Bakster

Maybe I will try it. I think the local Hobbytown stocks it. I will check with them. Short of that I will decant.

 

 

I used to use the Mr. Surfacer 1500 also.  I thinned mine with MEK and it was pretty much exactly like decanted Tamiya primer when thinned the same way and shot through a #1 needle and cap on my Paasche H.  I went with decanting Tamiya because I have a really efficient, mess free/fume free decanting process and you get quite a bit more primer for the same cost.  I get several months worth of priming every part out of a single can.  Also had problems with the plastic lids on the Mr. Surfacer bottles getting cracked in shipping, which was my only option for getting my hands on it.  Can't get it locally around here.  The Tamiya rattle cans handle the journey better.  Either one will serve you quite well though.

 

So, I received my order from Spray Gunner. I am very pleased with their quick turn. It probably came on Wednesday, but I didn't notice it on the stoop until Thursday. Btw. I ordered something else from them and they shipped it on the very next day as well. Awesome service indeed.

Below: I am pleased with the size of the primer. I was visualizing something smaller. I should be good to go for awhile. I will try spraying it tomorrow.

I made a trip to Dollar General and I found some things. I purchased some shoebox sized containers that should be a good size to either store a finished car kit or, to temporarily store a freshly painted kit keeping it from dust. 

On top of the box are some glass jars. I thought these would be good for making Eaglecashes decanting system. The one lid has holes that might work well for degassing, and l like too that these have handles to them. Not shown in the image are several bags of plastics spoons that I can use for test sprays. I also bought things like chocolates, napkins, floss, and all of this for only $11 and change. Such a deal.

Anyhow, tomorrow I test the new primer. 

Eaglecashes system:

the Baron

Don't sweat it, Bakster, it's good to share your experience with a product, whether a kit, or paint, or tools, etc.

Thanks, Baron. Sometimes I need to hear that.

oldermodelguy

It's the mystery that gets me lol.

Here as well, sir. Maybe one day the answer will reveal itself. 

Well as I stated already someplace in the thread, nothing wrong with lacquer primer. I used it and may again. I shot lacquer in 1/1 and models for decades. It's the mystery that gets me lol. But if Stynylrez blows up in my face I'll do the same as you, soo I get where you're at.

I tend not to shoot hot lacquer on models but also if I did do that I'd also use lacquer primer in that case as well.

Don't sweat it, Bakster, it's good to share your experience with a product, whether a kit, or paint, or tools, etc.

I have to say, I use Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer pretty much as my main primer.  

But regarding Stynylrez primer, though many people use it and post how much they like it, posts like yours and from other modelers who have had trouble with it, make me not want to try it.  Such feedback tells me that it's not worth the potential trouble, to switch brands.

MJY65

The AB cleaning problem doesn't get any better, either.  

That is no joke. That alone would make me not want to use this. Cleaning the AB was a fight. Frankly-- I am concerned about what crud is sitting deep insde the brush. Sigh.

Ok enough said. I don't like bashing and I am walking that line.  I tried to like it, it's not working for me, time to move on.

People shouldn't take my word for it though. Maybe they will fare better than I did. 

oldermodelguy

If it's thick I wouldn't thin it a tad but enough to make it spray right with either lacquer thinner or ipa

The thing is-- it was not thick. This was the closest to milk consistency I have seen from this product. I appreciate your help but there is soemthing wrong with this stuff. And if it's not defunct, then it's not for me either. I don't want to work this hard to make a product work. I really appreciate you guys trying to back me away from the ledge on this stuff but, for me, it's time to move on. I am glad it works for you guys though. Truely. 

If it's thick I wouldn't thin it a tad but enough to make it spray right with either lacquer thinner or ipa. I'm not a fan of water in it. Some guys have gone two parts thinner. I go 20% to 50-50. Sometimes I use no thinner but if the consistency is thicker than I like, I always thin it in that case. As I think I mentioned I've never bought the grey but mix my own from white and black, then I get the shade of grey I want.

It does take some cleaning even thinned right and windex and the 91% ipa will do better at that than lacquer thinner. And good really hot water rinses and back flushes.

Course you could always send it back and get your money returned if you think it's no good....

Bakster

So-- that is that.  I will keep the gray bottle and try that another time. Not holding my breath for a good outcome.

I wouldn't bother.  Even if that one bottle sprays well this month, what's the point?   If you start using it as your go-to primer, it is very likely to clump up somewhere down the road and ruin your model.  The next bottle is just as likely to be bad from the start.  The AB cleaning problem doesn't get any better, either.  

Just a heads up. Since I can't let sleeping dogs lie, I pulled the white primer and gave it another whirl. I have to say that of the several bottles of Stynlrez I have had, the white came new with a more watery consistency and less sperated. The gray has always been thick. So, this time, I tried spraying it with just a tad of water added. Oh-- and not before giving it another major power mixing.

The result was this: I was able to get a few passes when I started to notice paint buildup on the tip. I wiped it and it wasn't long when paint output began to drop. I had to pull back on the throttle more and more, then suddenly, paint would flow again. This happened several times. Not too much later I noticed paint splattering on the test piece and at this point, the trigger is being pulled back pretty far. 

That was it, the test is over, and it was another epic failure. That bottle is unusable. 

I should mention this too. I had a heck of a time cleaning the head, body, and cup. Lacquer thinner was struggling to cut through this stuff. Eventually, and after a few attempts, it seemed to win the war. 

So-- that is that.  I will keep the gray bottle and try that another time. Not holding my breath for a good outcome.

Thanks Guys.

MJY65

 

 

oldermodelguy

I'm not trying to change anyones mind, I like lacquer primer and used it for 35 years in 1/1 and who knows how long with models but we have a mystery here that I'm just thinking on.

 

 

 

My guess is very inconsistent quality control in manufacturing and shipping.   I don't think anyone here is lying about their good or bad experiences.  

 

Agreed. And no worries Oldermodelguy. It is a mystery as you say, and I encourage the dialog about it.

Here is something I might add to the conversation. When I was searching the forum about this primer I came across another post where the person describes the problem that they had, and it sounds eerily like mine where the primer gummed up the brush. Very odd indeed. I don't think they stated what color primer it was though. 

I don't know. Maybe I should dig the bottles from the garbage and experiment more. I hate a mystery. 

Update: If I do, not for this build. But some place in time in the future when I am twiddling my thumbs.

oldermodelguy

I'm not trying to change anyones mind, I like lacquer primer and used it for 35 years in 1/1 and who knows how long with models but we have a mystery here that I'm just thinking on.

My guess is very inconsistent quality control in manufacturing and shipping.   I don't think anyone here is lying about their good or bad experiences.  

With Stynylrez I buy black and white, then mix the shade of gray I want from those. Yesterday I mixed a batch with white and two drops of black to get something a touch darker than platinum grey. I thinned that 50-50 with 70% IPA and it shot beautiful. Now that black about a year ago had separated out with a big glob in the bottom and I mixed that back together twice since then with the Badger power mixer. Works fine. I shot in the H at 25 psi.All fwiw, I know the thread has moved on to lacquer primers. But I do believe many here would have tossed that black bottle a long time ago. No question Styn separates though and it needs power mixing back together if to use it. I've shot a few chassis  and a body or two in black but more volume is generally white with me and just drops of black or a little shot used, thus the black gets old by about two or even three whites to one black.

By the way lacquer primer in bottles can separate too. Course with lacquer the lacquer thinner kind of melts it out.I'm not trying to change anyones mind, I like lacquer primer and used it for 35 years in 1/1 and who knows how long with models but we have a mystery here that I'm just thinking on.

the Baron

 

 

Bakster

...It looks like I have to go back to decanting Tamiya.... 

 

 

 

Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer is available in jars, too:

https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/finishing/liquid-surface-primer-40ml-2/

The light grey shows currently as sold out on Tamiya USA's website, but it's worth looking for either product elsewhere on line, too.

 

Hey Baron, thanks. Good to know... 

Seems to be par for the course for them, at least on my orders so far.  Should arrive in a couple days.  My stuff comes USPS first class, 2-3 days, FL to OR.

goldhammer88

Cool, glad to help out, glad you found what you needed.

 

Hey GH. I received an email from Spray Gunner that my order is in the mail. Wow! How is that for quick shipping?