Help! Please! (masking tape woes)

One rule of thumb for painting, work lightest paint to darkest. In this case, paint the white first, mask off white areas, then do the red areas. Painting white over red is almost always problematic.... even if no masking leakage occurs.

Heartily agree with Stik that white over red (or pretty much any darker color) is asking for trouble, and should be avoided whenever possible.

The masking technique you outlined seems spot-on...particularly the very useful trick of sealing your tape edges with clear. If you're still getting creep under the edges, try going over the edges (before the clear is applied) with a rounded painbrush handle tip, or a rounded-off toothpick, to make sure the adhesive edge is burnished down snugly across its whole length.

Another 'trick' you might keep in mind for those touch-ups: when spraying any base or accent color on the model, do the same on a small section of clear or white decal stock. You can then cut suitable sections to cover small painting glitches or areas of overspray, particularly in hard-to-reach (and mask) areas on the model. These 'patches' usually blend in completely under clear finish coats...and are also a great effort-saver for things like canopy frames and small inspection panels.

Cheers

Thank you Stickpusher and Gregbale! 

I knew about the "dark over light" rule, but apparently it slipped my mind. 

And I knew about burnishing the edges of the masking tape, and I did that, but apparently not firmly enough, in party because that white part of the livery was very tricky to mask. Some of the seepage under the masking tape came from very small pieces of masking tape being necessarily overlapping other small pieces. And I probably wasn't careful enough in ensuring that the clear acylic was applied evenly. 

Using DIY decals as retouching material! Brilliant! I've always thought of decals as logos, numbers, letters, flags, instrument panels, etc. One thing I have learned to do successfully is make my own decals, except when I need a light coloured decal to go over dark paint. Then it's off to my decal pusher.

Bob 

In my original post, I asked if this retouching technique would work to correct small painting errors made with Tamiya TS-26 Pure White rattle-can spray paint:

1. Paint the errors that need to be retouched with light, brushed-on coats of slightly thinned Tamiya semi-clear or clear acrylic.

2. Using a small brush or even a sharpened toothpick, retouch the errors with decanted Tamiya spray paint, which shouldn’t interact with the clear acrylic.

No one has yet responded to that enquiry. Am I on the right track? (I'm also going to be trying Gregbales suggestion about spray painting decal film to make white "retouching" decals.

Bob

Wicking of paint can be fixed by sealing the edges of the tape.  Spray the edges of the tape with the paint you used underneath the tape.  That will seal the edges with the color you just masked.  You can also use a clearcoat to seal, but the paint works better.

missileman2000

Wicking of paint can be fixed by sealing the edges of the tape.  Spray the edges of the tape with the paint you used underneath the tape.  That will seal the edges with the color you just masked.  You can also use a clearcoat to seal, but the paint works better.

 

I understand about sealing the masking tape edges. My last question is about retouching small errors caused by unsealed tape. I want to know if I can paint Tamiya clear acrylic over the errors, then paint the area with decanted Tamiya rattle-can paint. 

All I can say is that you should get a plastic spoon, paint it the same way you painted your model (using the same materials and techniques) and then try your idea on the spoon.  Personally, I don't think your plan will work, since painting with a brush over existing paint is almost always going to lift the paint underneath due to mechanical and chemical stress.  Tamiya rattle cans are generally lacquers, so they will attack any paint underneath if applied with a brush...or applied too heavily with an airbrush.  I know you don't want to hear this, but you're probably going to either have to live with the errors, or strip all of the paint off and start over.  I strongly recommend using Tamiya Masking Sticker sheets to cut your masks from, and avoiding bleed-under is just a matter of not laying the paint down like a firehose.  Put it on in thin, gradual passes, and keep the airbrush angled from the masked side toward the side the paint is going on...not the other way around.  You can practice getting the technique right on spoons as well, so you won't have to fix errors later.

I did all of the masking around the engine exhaust area and horizontal stabs on this Phantom using the materials and techniques listed above...no clear-coating along the edges of the masking or any other extra steps.  The black base I used for the bare metal areas was even 2K paint, which stays wet for days as it cures, and had no bleed-under.  The scalloping between the upper and lower camo was done the same way.  It just takes practice and experimentation to find what works best for you.

Thank you, Eaglecash867. Your response makes good sense. I could live with the model as it is, but I'd prefer to tidy it up a bit more. Stripping it and starting over is a bridge too far. I'll have some old model parts that would work for testing your suggestions.

Bob

No problem Bob.  Old model parts are even better for testing and practicing different techniques, so hopefully you can get something worked out.  I find that short bursts from the airbrush work really well for touching up mistakes and scratches, and if you end up trying those Tamiya masking sticker sheets, you'll probably never go back to using tape for masking again.  They're a fantastic addition to any painting toolkit, and actually a lot easier to work with than tape.

Edit:  Sorry, Bob.  I forgot you had said you only use rattle cans and brush painting.  I have a small apartment and am able to airbrush just fine.  You really don't need an elaborate setup that takes up lots of space when you airbrush the way I do.

Eaglecash867

Edit:  Sorry, Bob.  I forgot you had said you only use rattle cans and brush painting.  I have a small apartment and am able to airbrush just fine.  You really don't need an elaborate setup that takes up lots of space when you airbrush the way I do.

@ Eaglecash867: I'd very much like to know more about your airbrush set-up and technique. If I were to take the airbrush route, I'd absolutely need to be able set it up, on my stove top because of the venting, in just two or three minutes. 

Bob

Hi!

          I have to pipe in because I do a lot of brush painting due to the allergies in this household! When I need to tape, Here's what I do. I have NOT gone to Tamiya's tapes except for Boot stripes and just plain waterlines! Why? You ask? Well, over the years I have found a tape that works flawlessly for me no matter the shape or contour on the model.

           In the beginning there was a learning curve. Not anymore! I will take it and put it up against any other tape anytime! It's good old Cheap by the Six-Pack "Scotch Magic Mending Tape". It not only keeps my old worn copies of Fine Scale Modeler intact, But it does the duty! It can be cut into thin strips, Have hole punches used on it for Port-Glass, and even using the punches made for P.E. or Plastic for teensy circles of tape.

           It works great on Canopies and other stuff too. How? Well, it takes planning, patience, and a desire to make it better than Box-Stock while Being Box Stock! Too Sticky, You Say? Nope, not if you do it right! There is many an article I have read about the tape pulling paint off the already painted surface, not just this brand. Did you know you can reduce the stickiness of this product to a point it won't pull the paint off, if the paint was shot or brushed on a properly prepared surface?

       It's called GLASS. It can be any kind of perfectly flat clean Glass in the house. It must be a smooth as a "Baby's Butt" (To use a common phrase) And Clean!! DO NOT use a Mirror though!! Using this method and running the tape across the glass, burnishing it as you lay it down, so there is no bubbles, then lay out the length you need! Pull it back over itself and before you lose contact Burnish it down again!

       YES! Old School, but, It has performed this way, and well, for over sixty years! Canopies are a wee bit stubborn, because of the size of some pieces. If the piece doesn't fit right, Then I put a Bigger piece over that one glass panel and Burnish them to the frame then Using a Sharp, New X-Acto blade cut it at the frame edge. Burnish and paint! For Canopies I burnish and Lift the tape I use twice.This way I don't pull the canopy frame paint off. Also I do it within the first ten minutes after painting those frames. That way the paint can't harden into a sharp stuck edge on the tape. The paint settles and Bingo, Perfect canopies!

        You may disagree with this old school method, But if it has worked this long, with all brands and type of paints, Why Change? Just for the sake of change, No Way!!

Just be careful.

The elecrical exhaust fan over the oven could possibly be an ignition source that could possibly trigger a fire when using flammable products.

I'm sure that there are special exhaust fans made just for spray painting in any commercially sold products.

Might want to look in to it.

gregbale

Another 'trick' you might keep in mind for those touch-ups: when spraying any base or accent color on the model, do the same on a small section of clear or white decal stock. You can then cut suitable sections to cover small painting glitches or areas of overspray, particularly in hard-to-reach (and mask) areas on the model. These 'patches' usually blend in completely under clear finish coats...and are also a great effort-saver for things like canopy frames and small inspection panels.

I liked Gregbale's suggestion, and tried it. My first effort, spraying Tamiya Pure White on transparent DIY decal film, didn't work — the white paint (two coats) turned it into a translucent decal through which the unwanted red paint showed. Then I sprayed a sheet of white DIY decal paper, and voila! I cut a piece the size and shape of one of the model's ailerons, and just "disappeared" those pesky red spots! A very small section of white paint near the tail, shaped like part of a double ellipse, is now invisible thanks to a tiny white decal of the same shape. I feel like I'm a...re-born modeller! 

Bob

Tanker-Builder

It's good old Cheap by the Six-Pack "Scotch Magic Mending Tape".

I've been using Magic Mending Tape for decades. I even used it just recently to secure some small-bubble bubble wrap to my TBM model to help create some soft-edged retouching with spray. But I know from experience that the tape is tricky to handle. It can stick to itself in a blink, resists unsticking, and tears easily. Although I've had a longish learning curve with with Tamiya masking tape (both their yellow paper or the white plastic tape designed for curves), I feel like I've now got a good handle on that, thanks to a lot of good advice from Finescale members like yourself, Tanker Builder!

Bob

Thank You!

     Anytime for fellow modelers,and Lady modelers too!

Bob, my airbrushing technique makes it so no elaborate setup is needed because the paint all goes on the model.  Since I'm primarily building military aircraft models, I am always airbrushing with low pressure and extremely low volume, so I work close-in with my 35-year-old Paasche H.  No extra ventilation is needed when the paint is going on the model.  I just paint right there, in the open, on my cutting mat.  I have extra bright lighting around the area, so I know that I don't have stray paint particles floating in the air.  No overspray...none of that.   I've never understood the firehose method that so many modelers use, so its not the way I do it.

Also, on the subject of masking, I have to clarify again that I was not talking about Tamiya tape.  I was talking about Tamiya masking sticker sheets.  You cut those to the sizes and shapes that you want them with a #11 blade.  They are incredibly thin, tough, flexible, and re-stickable multiple times so you can get them exactly where you want them.  No "de-sticking" routines or anything like that, the adhesive is already the perfect level of tack, and it stays that way.  The best thing about them is that the adhesive has never chemically reacted with the paint (which often causes "stripes" and discoloration of paint where things like Tamiya tape were applied)...it even is friendly to Alclad...doesn't discolor or change the reflectivity of that either.

Thank you, Eaglecash. 

Eaglecash867

I am always airbrushing with low pressure and extremely low volume, so I work close-in with my 35-year-old Paasche H.  No extra ventilation is needed when the paint is going on the model. 

So, do currently available airbrushes work the same way, providing both low pressure and volume? That might work for me. Recommendations?

I am curious about the Tamiya masking sticker sheets, but they seem to be in short supply right now. I'll do a google search and see what turns up.

Bob

I've continuing using Gregbale's suggestion to spray paint sheets of DIY decal film with the same paints I used on my TBM model, but I haven't had the same success with red paint that I had with white paint. 

First I painted a piece of white DIY decal film with three, maybe four light coats of red paint. But when I applied a small, red decal to the model, it was slightly less red (more orange?) than the original paint. In addition, the cut edges of the decal showed tiny bit of the white-surfaced decal.

I'm currently trying the same trick with clear film, and at least three coats of red paint, but the decals won't be ready to try until tomorrow. 

Your thoughts?

Bob 

Bobstamp

So, do currently available airbrushes work the same way, providing both low pressure and volume? That might work for me. Recommendations? I am curious about the Tamiya masking sticker sheets, but they seem to be in short supply right now. I'll do a google search and see what turns up. Bob

The Paasche H airbrush is still manufactured and readily available, so you should have no trouble getting your hands on one.  I have a couple of other, fancier airbrushes, but they have yet to see any real use...the Paasche is just that good...reliable and simple to use/maintain.

The Tamiya masking sheets can be had at Sprue Brothers.

https://spruebrothers.com/tam87129-tamiya-masking-sticker-sheet-5pcs-1mm-grid-type/

I think the combination of those two things would help you solve the problem you're having.  I seem to have problems a lot during my finishing process where I accidentally drop or crash a metal tool tip into the model, leaving a chip or gouge in the paint.  A little sanding/feathering of the damage, followed by a spot airbrushing of primer and paint using the Paasche H (and sometimes a piece of the masking sticker sheet, depending on how close a second color area may be) and I end up with an invisible repair.

Thank you for your suggestions, Eaglecash867. I have to admit that the airbrushing you do is intriguing. What would you recommend for a source of compressed air. There's "canned air," refillable canned air cans, and very small compressors like the Iwata Neo Air Miniature Compressor. Recommendations welcome!

I should mention that I have no plans to build anything larger than, say, a Lancaster bomber or transport in 1/72 scale or single/double engine righters in 1/48 scale. I would most likely use an airbrush for painting small parts or  details on larger parts. Recommendations welcome!

Bob

A small compressor with a tank is good,their fairly quiet mine doesn't run an awful lot,check Amazon.

ZENY Professional Airbrush Compressor with Tank Multipurpose Airbrushing Kit for Spraying Art Tattoo Nail Painting Makeup https://a.co/d/3HVGRNV

Back to Gregbale's suggestion to paint DIY decal film with the same paint I'm trying to retouch. I tried first with white DIY decal film, but that didn't work well because the trimmed edges of the decals show white. I could have tried cutting out the decals first, then spraying them to cover the edges, but instead I went with transparent DIY decal film, and increased the amount of spraying by about 50%. Voila! The decals covered the unwanted paint perfectly, and are barely visible in the right light, visible probably because of the slightly different surface of the decal compared to the model. A final spray of the whole model with semi-clear Tamiya spray (except for the canopy of the TBM) should make them virtually invisible.

Bob

Bob, this is the compressor I have been using.  Its pretty much ready to go with an airbrush, right out of the box.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006ACB6D2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ended up adding quick-disconnect fittings to the hose and the airbrush, and I have a small ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning the airbrush parts.  With the Paasche H, all of the parts of it that run paint through them are easily removable with just a 5/64" allen wrench.  After each color, I just drop all of those parts in a pickle relish jar (about a 4 ounce jar, I think) that has MEK in it, then put the jar in the ultrasonic cleaner with a little water in its tub help evenly transmit the sound waves to the jar and its contents.  I run that cleaner for about 30 minutes to get everything completely clean, and then rinse the parts with hot water and let them air dry.  I have 3 sets of needles, air caps, and color cups, so I can paint the next color if I want to, while the previous color is being cleaned from the first set of parts.  Or you can paint the next colors right away if you want to, and then clean all of the airbrush parts in the same batch.  Those parts are all relatively cheap, so you can have multiple sets, and replace them easily when the chrome finally wears off of them (takes a couple of years of heavy use/cleaning before that happens).  The rest of the airbrush rarely needs anything done to it.  I like to call it the AK-47 of airbrushes...bought it when I was 16.

I build mostly 1/48 scale post-1950s fighters, with an occasional 1/72 or 1/32 thrown in here and there, and my setup works really well for all of those.  Currently building that 1/48 Tamiya F-4B I showed a picture of and recently started the 1/48 Revell SR-71A...had to start another project to break up the monotony of placing the hundreds of placard decals on the F-4B.

Eaglecash867

Bob, this is the compressor I have been using.  Its pretty much ready to go with an airbrush, right out of the box….

Thank you, Eaglecash867. Unfortunately, I don't think that that airbrush system would be at all suitable for my living circumstances. While my wife and I own a nice apartment, in a building in which some people are asking for more than million dollars for their apartment, ours is small, with very limited storage space. I can scarcely find room for my small stash of models, and have to comandeer our dining table whenever I want to work on my models. It may be that airbrushing is not possible for me, unless some of the miniature outfits work reasonably well. I would love to be able to do small touch-ups with an easy-to-set-up/take-down, easy-to-use/clean-up system made up of a small, highly portable, quiet compressor, if that's possible. 

Bob