Gloss Coating Over Metallics

I recently finished a P51 using Vallejo metallics, and gloss coated with Mr Hobby rattle can gloss coat. No problem at all. 

good luck!

Tanker-Builder

Laskjdn:

     I think some can be coated earlier. Take your test piece and do this. Rub a small corner with your fingers,Then try to buff it with a soft(T-Shirt material,Clean and dry) rag, If it tries to buff, Clearcoat it! Then wait an hour.  If you are going to get a reaction it should start showing up in that timeframe. If not, Bob's Yer Uncle!

     I will say this to all, It's been my experience that all metallics  Never react the same way so Test, Test, Test!!! Oh, And NEVER try to Clear Coat, Testors Chrome Silver! Even after a year When it has dulled a wee bit, don't do it. It will turn flat aluminium looking! Under the nice Gloss-Coat!

 

I'll try that.   Wha should u be looking for when I rub it with my finger? 

Laskjdn:

     I think some can be coated earlier. Take your test piece and do this. Rub a small corner with your fingers,Then try to buff it with a soft(T-Shirt material,Clean and dry) rag, If it tries to buff, Clearcoat it! Then wait an hour.  If you are going to get a reaction it should start showing up in that timeframe. If not, Bob's Yer Uncle!

     I will say this to all, It's been my experience that all metallics  Never react the same way so Test, Test, Test!!! Oh, And NEVER try to Clear Coat, Testors Chrome Silver! Even after a year When it has dulled a wee bit, don't do it. It will turn flat aluminium looking! Under the nice Gloss-Coat!

Oho, Cbaltrin;

     You may be onto something there! I found a bottle of Tamiya I bought back in 2010. Surprise, Surprise, The stuff was still useable. Now, If only they had a nice box I could put ALL my Model Master in that let them fit right, to see how many bottles of it I actually have. I seem to have a lot of Gunmetal, Anthracite and Flat Sea Blue. I wish I knew why. Now Most of that is about seven or eight years old, Never opened!

     I also have twelve bottles of MM. clear Gloss and the same amout of, Wait for it! Pactra! Clear gloss and at least six bottles of semi-Gloss clear,(MM) and another dozen bottles of Clear flat by Craftint(That's acrylic!) This is only part of the boxes of stuff I am going through since I closed my regular workshop. Gees, you should see the tools too. Any body know what an extended handle Ear Polypus is? I got two of those. Oh! and at least Four more boxes of paint I have to go through. I know some is Tamiya I bought in 2000. Wonder what Kinda shape it's in?

Eaglecash867

Don't know about anybody else, but I do it to seal in any decals that may have been applied.  Clear-coating also gives some protection to NMF finishes, which tend to be a little more fragile than regular paint.

 

This.  Specifically,  because I use water based acrylics,  gloss coating prevents decal setting solution from destroying my paint

Don't know about anybody else, but I do it to seal in any decals that may have been applied.  Clear-coating also gives some protection to NMF finishes, which tend to be a little more fragile than regular paint.

Why is it neccessary to gloss coat a NMF finish?

got a new bottle of duraluminum yesterday..... sprayed down color at lunch,  cleared in the evening,  light wet passes.... no cracks,  I'm convinced my duraluminum was bad

laskdjn

so,  I clear coated with aquagloss my test piece I sprayed with regular mission models aluminum MMM-003..... no cracks, nice sheen,  I think the duraluminum was bad

 

That's a good sign then.  Hopefully the new stuff will behave for you.

so,  I clear coated with aquagloss my test piece I sprayed with regular mission models aluminum MMM-003..... no cracks, nice sheen,  I think the duraluminum was bad

laskdjn

I'm starting to think that my bottle of duraluminum had gone bad.   what was happening was when I sprayed it,  I'd lay dish a nice light,  but wet coat,  just as you're supposed to,  but once it'd cure for a couple days,  you could drop regular old water on it and the paint coat would dissolve. 

 

I have had Alclad stuff go bad, on colors I do not use frequently.  While the bottles do have a good seal on the cap, that stuff is very thin hot lacquer.  So I guess if I keep opening the bottle I must expect some loss of thinner.  I never thin the stuff- the factory ratio is best.

Tanker-Builder

Did you know that even the old Testors Enamels in the square bottles can go bad? Well, that same applies to ANY water or Alcohol based Acrylic

Not true, tamiya acrylics never go bad. I think they last longer than k-rations.. 

Tanker-Builder

Hi!

 It's a given. Did you know that even the old Testors Enamels in the square bottles can go bad? Well, that same applies to ANY water or Alcohol based Acrylic. High Temperatures and Severely low ones can destroy the Bond between the Pigment and Carrier. "Pigment-A substance giving a color to a mix of natural or manufactured colorants."

 "Carrier- A manufactured or natural base from which paints are made .It can be any numerous natural or chemical Compounds. Both can be severely affected by environments where stored, Or, other outside influence such as U.V.Light!

       Note: It's been My experience with Metallic coatings to let them Gas out for a full week Before tryng to clearcoat. AND it's always best to use the Mfgrs. recommended Gloss or Semi-Gloss Clear-Coat. The ONLY one I have not run into problems  with here is " Rub-N-Buff" This clearcoats easily after about two weeks of gassing out( If that's the right terminology referring to their product)

 

2 weeks?  Jeebus. I have a test piece that I primed and painted a different shade of metallic that didn't show the fragility that the duraluminum did.   it's been drying for 2 days now and I wanted to run some test clear sprays on it

Eaglecash867

 

 

laskdjn

Compare that to the Vallejo model air I was using when I first taught myself to airbrush some 5 years ago and it's night and day. 

 

 

Oh yeah.  I hear ya.  I tried Vallejo Model Air once, and I'll never go back to that.  I thought it was terrible paint.  Hopefully the new bottle of Mission works out for you.

 

I'll definitely report back with my findings. 

laskdjn

Compare that to the Vallejo model air I was using when I first taught myself to airbrush some 5 years ago and it's night and day. 

Oh yeah.  I hear ya.  I tried Vallejo Model Air once, and I'll never go back to that.  I thought it was terrible paint.  Hopefully the new bottle of Mission works out for you.

Eaglecash867

Since you're at the point of repainting anyway, you might consider trying a different brand of paint.  Alclad makes Duraluminum and so does MRP.  Those both are ready to shoot, straight out of the bottle.  The only thing that made those difficult to clearcoat was that the clearcoats usually had a tendancy to alter the metallic sheen, but never had any of them crack. I was reading the instructions on the Mission Models Duraluminum on their web-site, and all the stuff you have to mix with it is insane.    This isn't the first time I have seen someone talking about Mission Models paint where the possibility of it having gone bad has been mentioned.  I can't wrap my brain around how a model paint goes bad, but it seems to be one of the drawbacks to using water-based acrylics.

 

I was trying to stay with water based acrylics.   On the whole mission models paints have been exceptionally pleasant to shoot.  They go down really easy for me, they resist tip dry,  and they don't spider that badly for me. 

Compare that to the Vallejo model air I was using when I first taught myself to airbrush some 5 years ago and it's night and day. 

Hi Missileman2!

    It's been my experience that even Testors metallics change color slightly or Yellow depending on the clear you use. I once coated a model Car for a club newsletter with Future and it glossed up beautifully. I cleaned it with Ammonia not to long ago and It had turned five or six degrees toward the yellow spectrum, looked like Dull Gold instead of Brushed Silver paint!

     Now! For clear-Coating Bare Metal Foil or other material other than Paint. I find The Gloss Craft Clears, In Hi-Gloss or Semi-Gloss from Craftint Acrylics line works great!

Hi!

 It's a given. Did you know that even the old Testors Enamels in the square bottles can go bad? Well, that same applies to ANY water or Alcohol based Acrylic. High Temperatures and Severely low ones can destroy the Bond between the Pigment and Carrier. "Pigment-A substance giving a color to a mix of natural or manufactured colorants."

 "Carrier- A manufactured or natural base from which paints are made .It can be any numerous natural or chemical Compounds. Both can be severely affected by environments where stored, Or, other outside influence such as U.V.Light!

       Note: It's been My experience with Metallic coatings to let them Gas out for a full week Before tryng to clearcoat. AND it's always best to use the Mfgrs. recommended Gloss or Semi-Gloss Clear-Coat. The ONLY one I have not run into problems  with here is " Rub-N-Buff" This clearcoats easily after about two weeks of gassing out( If that's the right terminology referring to their product)

Since you're at the point of repainting anyway, you might consider trying a different brand of paint.  Alclad makes Duraluminum and so does MRP.  Those both are ready to shoot, straight out of the bottle.  The only thing that made those difficult to clearcoat was that the clearcoats usually had a tendancy to alter the metallic sheen, but never had any of them crack. I was reading the instructions on the Mission Models Duraluminum on their web-site, and all the stuff you have to mix with it is insane.    This isn't the first time I have seen someone talking about Mission Models paint where the possibility of it having gone bad has been mentioned.  I can't wrap my brain around how a model paint goes bad, but it seems to be one of the drawbacks to using water-based acrylics.

I'm starting to think that my bottle of duraluminum had gone bad.   what was happening was when I sprayed it,  I'd lay dish a nice light,  but wet coat,  just as you're supposed to,  but once it'd cure for a couple days,  you could drop regular old water on it and the paint coat would dissolve. 

now if I had that problem,  and then I tried to gloss coat, I'd reactivate the paint,  it'd be re-drying with the clear over top of it,  and it'd crack the clear, I'm gonna get a new bottle of duraluminum and see what happens

missileman2000

When we say metallic paints, do we mean a BMF coating or regular paints, like metallic blue.

 

It was duraluminum. 

I usually use testors metalizer sealer, but I have never used it over acrylics... I usually do not clear coat metallics though... 

When we say metallic paints, do we mean a BMF coating or regular paints, like metallic blue.

He tried Mission Models metal paint with Mission Models clear and it still didn't work,along with some other options !!!

Hello Jack!

      This is something I have experienced along with a dulling of the metallic. Years ago the only way i could overcoat Testors Chrome Silver was to use Pactra clear in a spritz Perfume Bottle. Remember those little bottles with the little air bag on them? That was then. Now I just go with tried and proven systems Like using say. Rusteoleum colors with Rustoleum clear coat. Tamiya colors with Tamiya Clear. Some of the others I haven't tried and have no desire to do so. Paint already costs too much as it is!

You could try Tamiya X-22 clear thinned with Mr Levelling Thinner, this has worked for me after encountering a similar problem with base coat "bubbling". Give it a try on a test mule, you will be happily supprised.

laskdjn

Thanks for this,  I may have to try it.   However,  I'm reticent to try something new if the first 3 products did the same thing.   I feel it's a process or technique issue,  not a product issue. 

Yup.  I definitely understand your thinking on this.  I just haven't found anything that works well over a metallic coat, and the Gauzy Agent finally did.  It could be cure time like the MM reps told you though.  I'm just going from my experience with Alclad lacquers, and those cure in minutes.

Eaglecash867

Don't know if it will work the same with the Mission Models metallic paint, but I have been using Intermediate Gauzy Agent Shine Enhancer by AK Interactive when I want to clearcoat over Alclad lacquers.  I haven't been using it for very long, but so far I haven't had any issues with it.

Here's more info on it:

https://ak-interactive.com/product/intermediate-gauzy-agent-shine-enhancer/

 

Thanks for this,  I may have to try it.   However,  I'm reticent to try something new if the first 3 products did the same thing.   I feel it's a process or technique issue,  not a product issue. 

Tojo72

That's strange that MM clear would cause a problem with MM paint.When I had a question,they responded pretty fast.Try contacting them tomorrow,maybe they have some thoughts.

https://www.missionmodelsus.com/pages/contact

 

I did last night actually and they responded within 15 minutes.   They gave me some stuff to try.   The two points they mentioned is that I may not have let my paint completely dry and I might have been going down to heavy with the Aquagloss.

They thing is I've never had a problem with the way I use Aquagloss on regular color coats.   And the plane I'm working on the metallic had a couple days to dry after I was working on painting the invasion stripes and the OD topside of the craft.   Neither of which showed the crazing.