Model Master airbrush thinner

jimbot58

Perhaps many of us have been duped over the years to only use their propriatary products.

 

Speaking for myself, I haven't used their thinner since the 1970's. There is more to the story but that doesn't matter.

Perhaps many of us have been duped over the years to only use their propriatary products.

jimbot58

I pulled down my 8 ounce metal can stash of airbrush thinner to refill my smaller bottle and noticed it had a price tag of $10.99 on it. Not sure how long I have had it and I believe I got it from Hobbytown. Saw the same can on Ebay for $35. A little quick computation and I come up with around $577 per gallon! Plus shipping! Another seller has the 1 3/4 oz. bottles listed for almost $10! Had I of known of the ending of the some of these things, I would have stocked up and resold them for money!

 A combo of hardware store mineral spirits and paint thinner mixed together then thin with that works just as well. And hardware store lacquer thinner works perhaps even better.

I pulled down my 8 ounce metal can stash of airbrush thinner to refill my smaller bottle and noticed it had a price tag of $10.99 on it. Not sure how long I have had it and I believe I got it from Hobbytown. Saw the same can on Ebay for $35. A little quick computation and I come up with around $577 per gallon! Plus shipping! Another seller has the 1 3/4 oz. bottles listed for almost $10! Had I of known of the ending of the some of these things, I would have stocked up and resold them for money!

Eaglecash867

 

I've had the same problem sending e-mails to them.  I tried calling them one time though and that was a great experience.  Very knowledgeable and responsive that way.

 

That's good to know, thanks.

oldermodelguy

MCW will mix your paint up for you and then add that to their selections if they don't list it already. You need either a color match chip they can photograph with their spectrometer camera to feed into their computer or the paint code. My problem with all that is I've contacted them with general questions and never gotten a reply. But that's me, obviously others have gotten replies.

I've had the same problem sending e-mails to them.  I tried calling them one time though and that was a great experience.  Very knowledgeable and responsive that way.

Eaglecash867

 

Thanks for the tip, and thanks for the compliment!  As of right now, they have had the exact colors I needed, but I'm just getting going again with model cars...so that may change as I get more of them under my belt.  Really looking forward to the next project, a 1987 Porsche 911 Turbo...the Testors boxing of a Fujimi Enthusiast Series model.  Built that exact model when I was in high school, so I wanted to revisit it, with the skills, tools, and materials I have acquired since then.

 

MCW will mix your paint up for you and then add that to their selections if they don't list it already. You need either a color match chip they can photograph with their spectrometer camera to feed into their computer or the paint code. My problem with all that is I've contacted them with general questions and never gotten a reply. But that's me, obviously others have gotten replies.

oldermodelguy

MCW has a place if you need or don't want to mess around mixing exact match colors. Your Ford engine looks great !

Thanks for the tip, and thanks for the compliment!  As of right now, they have had the exact colors I needed, but I'm just getting going again with model cars...so that may change as I get more of them under my belt.  Really looking forward to the next project, a 1987 Porsche 911 Turbo...the Testors boxing of a Fujimi Enthusiast Series model.  Built that exact model when I was in high school, so I wanted to revisit it, with the skills, tools, and materials I have acquired since then.

Eaglecash867

 

 

Just commenting on my first impressions of MCW enamels, since you said you haven't tried them yet.  Not trying to win a contest here...just sharing my impression of them.  I'm constantly trying new things, so if something is mentioned that I have tried, I'm going to probably give some input.  Also probably going to show pics here and there of the results I got with something, because a picture is worth a thousand words. 

 

Their Ford Engine Blue Enamel sure is nice.

 

 

MCW has a place if you need or don't want to mess around mixing exact match colors. Your Ford engine looks great !

Eaglecash867

 I also tried Vallejo Model Air.  I know a lot of people like it, but its not for me.  Their FS colors aren't even close.  Their "SAC Bomber Green" didn't appear to have much green in it at all, it was more of a nasty brown color, instead of the nice blue-green color that its supposed to be.  The other problem is that no matter how much time went by, it remained soft and fragile.  I like their Model Color stuff because its excellent for brushing though.  All depends on the job I guess.

 

Just as a point of interest that doesn't matter if you don't like Vallejo colors to begin with. But we had a thread here a year or maybe two ago where some of us who use heated paint dryers, dryer boxes or dehydrators etc encountered a phenomenom where we noticed the Vallejo paints hardened in the dryer. They didn't feel soft, were harder to scratch or rub off and maybe best of all they didn't pull off very easy when taped for masking. I for one found it funny that all these people complaining of the issues with Vallejo, I was not encountering. And some other folks weren't either. The common denominator showed up in the fact that those using the heated dryers didn't have the issues. It was revealed by one member who never had a dryer, bought one and noticed in using it, the Valljo issues were resolved. Other than color of course.

Another point of interest is that the same thing happens with Createx paints shot with just their reducer.. With Createx it's perfectly understandable as those are made to be heat set anyway, as they were designed for fabrics.. If you use them on hard surfaces they created 4030 additive for that purpose.

Just points of interest, not trying to prove anything.

jimbot58

Like I said, I've only used the two colors in the MCW paint, the Pontiac engine and the carburetor color. And as to the drying time of the MM paint, I'm using some semi-gloss black from my stash on my 69 Chevelle project and even three days later, it still a bit tacky to the touch. Even the Chevy red (which always looked more orange to me) on the engine block of the 396 still is tacky even weeks later, which is another MM hold out. I'm going to order that black texture paint from MCW tonight to try on that '68 Chevelle I have been stalling on. Hmmmm... Chevelle's seem to keep recouring here, Should I mention how many Chevelle's seem to be in my stash? Still, I should get back to that Pontiac Goat on the desk and the brace of '66 pickup trucks there as well, one Ford and one Chevy. Maybe I could try the MCW paint on the '70 Chevelle.

Yup.  That has been my experience as well.  Most of the MM colors were good for limited handling after about a week, but there were some that stayed soft for months.  Funny you should mention Chevy Red.  Its what I used on the plug wire boots on my 351.  I fully expected to have little orange polka dots all over everything they touched, even weeks later, but that didn't happen in this particular case, and I think it had something to do with the primer I used.  Since the plug wire boots were made from a piece of 0.3mm ID teflon tubing, I knew I was probably going to have trouble getting paint to stay on them.  So, I tried a little experiment by airbrushing the tubing first with Gunze Mr. Metal Primer.  Not only did the paint end up sticking well, but it also fully cured in less than a day.  It doesn't transfer orange to my fingers when I handle it, yet the paint is flexible now and didn't crack and peel away when the tubing was flexed as the wires were inserted into them.  Weird the stuff you can learn just by taking a WAG.  

burrito king

That Ford is amazing. Being mainly a Chevy guy I don't recognize the engine maybe it's a 351 Cleveland? I really like the spark plug boots and cables. And the blue enamel is so clean. There are so many choices for paints. Personally I think all of them will give good results if used properly. I'm open to trying anything suggested on this forum. Unfortunately I only have one Thud to build so I can't try all of them.  My next SEA camo plane after that probably won't be for a while. Probably will be a F-100. The ones I've seen in photos looked beat to hell, I'm going to have a field day weathering it. My point is I probably have to pick one type of paint and be stuck with it for a while. Not that the others are inferior.

You got it right.  Its a 351-4V Cleveland for the '71 Boss 351 Mustang project I'm currently working on.  First time using the MCW enamels, and I'm very impressed with them so far.

Yup.  All kinds of good choices for paints out there and they'll work well if used properly...its just the proper use from some of them is more of a pain than its worth to me.  Some of the descriptions I see of the various mixing ratios of this and that make my eyes glaze over.  Having to use a chemistry set to get a paint to do its job isn't my idea of a good time.  LOL.

For the SEA camo scheme, I have also gotten a few bottles of the Mr. Color lacquers that look promising.  Haven't actually tried them yet, but every other Mr. Color lacquer that I have tried over the years has worked really well, with no fuss or chemistry sets, so I'm sure these will be fine as well.  I'm almost exclusively an MRP guy these days for military aircraft though.  That stuff is so easy to use, I sit down to airbrush something, and then I'm cleaning the airbrush thinking "Wow!  Am I really done already?  That was easy."  I live in Colorado, and the high altitude and low humidity make some paints a better choice than others.  When Model Master started going away, I also tried Vallejo Model Air.  I know a lot of people like it, but its not for me.  Their FS colors aren't even close.  Their "SAC Bomber Green" didn't appear to have much green in it at all, it was more of a nasty brown color, instead of the nice blue-green color that its supposed to be.  The other problem is that no matter how much time went by, it remained soft and fragile.  I like their Model Color stuff because its excellent for brushing though.  All depends on the job I guess.

Eaglecash867

 

 

oldermodelguy

I haven't used the MCW enamels. What I've seen of reviews they are quite good, though a bit proprietary. And I'm pretty aquainted with mixing my own colors and doing a little test shoot anyway, so I'll probably never use MCW again. I know for sure I won't be using their lacquer.

 

 

I recently started using MCW enamels on a Boss 351 Mustang build and they're fantastic.  I thin them 50/50 with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.  The main drawback to using them is that they take us back to the Model Master Enamel days of taking several days to a week just to be reasonably ready for normal handling.  But, that drawback is also its strength.  The stuff self-levels so beautifully that it rivals a 2K gloss, with no polishing or clearcoating, so its great for large items like car bodies.  For smaller parts on my Mustang project, I found that I like the MCW lacquers for that purpose, as the enamel goes on thicker and doesn't lend itself well to precise scraping to remove paint from areas where you want to glue something to.  I found that I always ended up with a little bit of chipped paint exposing bare plastic around where I intended to remove paint.  The lacquers don't have that issue.  You can get a hardener to mix with the enamels to speed the curing, which I have also gotten.  Haven't really found a need for the hardener, since I'm not exactly lightning fast on my builds.  I have noticed that the hardener seems to have a pretty high concentration of something that smells like Ether in it, and it doesn't have much of a shelf life, so that's another thing to think about for anybody looking at using them.

 

Like I said, I've only used the two colors in the MCW paint, the Pontiac engine and the carburetor color. And as to the drying time of the MM paint, I'm using some semi-gloss black from my stash on my 69 Chevelle project and even three days later, it still a bit tacky to the touch. Even the Chevy red (which always looked more orange to me) on the engine block of the 396 still is tacky even weeks later, which is another MM hold out. I'm going to order that black texture paint from MCW tonight to try on that '68 Chevelle I have been stalling on. Hmmmm... Chevelle's seem to keep recouring here, Should I mention how many Chevelle's seem to be in my stash? Still, I should get back to that Pontiac Goat on the desk and the brace of '66 pickup trucks there as well, one Ford and one Chevy. Maybe I could try the MCW paint on the '70 Chevelle.

Eaglecash867

 

 

oldermodelguy

I'll just say that  MCW enamel isn't needed to get great flow out,leveling and gloss. And leave it at that, there is so much that could be said but not tonight..

 

 

 

 

Just commenting on my first impressions of MCW enamels, since you said you haven't tried them yet.  Not trying to win a contest here...just sharing my impression of them.  I'm constantly trying new things, so if something is mentioned that I have tried, I'm going to probably give some input.  Also probably going to show pics here and there of the results I got with something, because a picture is worth a thousand words. 

 

Their Ford Engine Blue Enamel sure is nice.

 

 

That Ford is amazing. Being mainly a Chevy guy I don't recognize the engine maybe it's a 351 Cleveland? I really like the spark plug boots and cables. And the blue enamel is so clean.

There are so many choices for paints. Personally I think all of them will give good results if used properly. I'm open to trying anything suggested on this forum. Unfortunately I only have one Thud to build so I can't try all of them.  My next SEA camo plane after that probably won't be for a while. Probably will be a F-100. The ones I've seen in photos looked beat to hell, I'm going to have a field day weathering it. My point is I probably have to pick one type of paint and be stuck with it for a while. Not that the others are inferior.

oldermodelguy

I'll just say that  MCW enamel isn't needed to get great flow out,leveling and gloss. And leave it at that, there is so much that could be said but not tonight..

Just commenting on my first impressions of MCW enamels, since you said you haven't tried them yet.  Not trying to win a contest here...just sharing my impression of them.  I'm constantly trying new things, so if something is mentioned that I have tried, I'm going to probably give some input.  Also probably going to show pics here and there of the results I got with something, because a picture is worth a thousand words. 

I'll just say that  MCW enamel isn't needed to get great flow out,leveling and gloss. And leave it at that, there is so much that could be said but not tonight..

oldermodelguy

I haven't used the MCW enamels. What I've seen of reviews they are quite good, though a bit proprietary. And I'm pretty aquainted with mixing my own colors and doing a little test shoot anyway, so I'll probably never use MCW again. I know for sure I won't be using their lacquer.

I recently started using MCW enamels on a Boss 351 Mustang build and they're fantastic.  I thin them 50/50 with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.  The main drawback to using them is that they take us back to the Model Master Enamel days of taking several days to a week just to be reasonably ready for normal handling.  But, that drawback is also its strength.  The stuff self-levels so beautifully that it rivals a 2K gloss, with no polishing or clearcoating, so its great for large items like car bodies.  For smaller parts on my Mustang project, I found that I like the MCW lacquers for that purpose, as the enamel goes on thicker and doesn't lend itself well to precise scraping to remove paint from areas where you want to glue something to.  I found that I always ended up with a little bit of chipped paint exposing bare plastic around where I intended to remove paint.  The lacquers don't have that issue.  You can get a hardener to mix with the enamels to speed the curing, which I have also gotten.  Haven't really found a need for the hardener, since I'm not exactly lightning fast on my builds.  I have noticed that the hardener seems to have a pretty high concentration of something that smells like Ether in it, and it doesn't have much of a shelf life, so that's another thing to think about for anybody looking at using them.

There seems to be a belief that because Testors changed the MM line, that they dropped all their enamels.  Not true. The MM name was used for a model car line, but many of tne old MM line is still available in their main enamel line.  They still make the gunmetal, semigloss black, metallic black, flat aluminum and a great chrome (in square bottles and spray cans). There are many other great colors.  You can no longer buy colors by some miltary standards- you may need to mix (buy a color wheel).  BTW, I use harware store enamel thinner-  make sure it is labled as ENAMEL thinner and not just "paint thinner.

burrito king

I wonder if you all are familiar with a couple of other paints I have found. One is MCW finishes.

 

I just checked the Mr Color acrylics, looks like they have a good selection of thr FS colors. I think I will get those instead of mixing tamiya acrylics.,

Speaking for myself on MCW lacquers: first they are quite hot, unlike the more tame hobby lacquers like Tamiya LP or Mr Color. Second they are costly and especially after shipping costs. For automotive the lacquers are more a base color to be used under clear coat. I polished and hand rubbed my life away on a 1/16 model build and finally caved in and just clear coated it. Now again for myself, I build mostly antiqueor classic era cars and want the color coat to be full gloss, which enamels do and LP lacquer gloss does and with just a touch of polishing so will Tamiya acrylic X series gloss.

I haven't used the MCW enamels. What I've seen of reviews they are quite good, though a bit proprietary. And I'm pretty aquainted with mixing my own colors and doing a little test shoot anyway, so I'll probably never use MCW again. I know for sure I won't be using their lacquer.

Reports on the Aqueous Mr paints ( acrylic) is that they behave pretty much like Tamiya acrylics. I haven't used them myself. They are supposed to be quite good. So are the Mr Color lacquers.

burrito king

Hi Eaglecash867, thanks for the tip on the MRP lacquers. I like that it's premixed and doesn't require thinning. I never worked with lacquer but I think experimenting with new products and techniques is really interesting.

No problem.  I think you'll like the durability and ease of use with these, as well as the massive variety of colors.  One other cool thing about them is that, unless the bottle says otherwise, they are all semi-gloss paints, so you don't even have to do a gloss clearcoat before applying decals.  They eliminate that step completely.  Then, after the decals are on, they have 4 different sheens of clear lacquer to choose from to do your final clearcoat with, and their Matte lacquer is dead flat, which looks really nice on military aircraft.

Did the camo scheme on this 1/72 scale F-16B using some of their FS line of paints.

burrito king

 

 

oldermodelguy

Hi oldermodelguy, I agree Tamiya flats are easy and forgiving. I just mixed some with alcohol and got nice results. For my Thud I am torn between several choices that were mentioned in this thread. If I go with Tamiya acrylic I will try it with LT to get a harder finish.

 

oldermodelguy

 

 

burrito king

Hi jimbot58, my old MM enamels are pretty thick and muddy. On my recent Me-262, I had trouble getting the right consistency for my airbrush.  I had to use 4:1 ratio of thinner to paint to get decent flow.

I am currently working on a P-38 that will use alclad alc-101 aluminum NMF. But my next build will be the F-105 in SEA camo. I might have MM in one or two of the colors. But I think I will end up using Tamiya acrylics for the whole thing. I will miss the MM, but I am looking forward to working with the Tamiya acrylics. Who knows, I might end up liking those even more than MM.

 

 

 

 

I use Tamiya acrylics (along with several other acrylics) and they are forgiving to mix and spray nice, especially the flats. The gloss paints are nice too but I think the Tamiya LP lacquers in gloss are even nicer. I use Mr Leveling Thinner in both the Tamiya lacquers or the acrylics. So you can come down to stocking one thinner for both paints if you want to. Actually for the flat acrylic you can use hardware store lacquer thinner, the real stuff not the new synthetic green friendly stuff.

You can thin Tamiya acrylic with various alcohols or use their X-20 thinner which is a combination of various alcohols but even at the Tamiya website it states you will get a harder finish with LT.

You can use up what you have left of MM thinner on the Testors square bottle enamel. But hardware store lacquer thinner works great with those as well.

 

Hi oldermodelguy, I agree Tamiya flats are easy and forgiving. I just mixed some with alcohol and got nice results. For my Thud I am torn between several choices that were mentioned in this thread. If I go with Tamiya acrylic I will try it with LT to get a harder finish.

Eaglecash867

Jimbot58 and Burrito King, if you haven't already seen them, check out MRP lacquers too.  HUGE variety of FS and other miltary colors...and they cure in less than an hour.  No thinning required with these, as they're all airbrush ready.

 

Hi Eaglecash867, thanks for the tip on the MRP lacquers. I like that it's premixed and doesn't require thinning. I never worked with lacquer but I think experimenting with new products and techniques is really interesting.

jimbot58

I stopped tonight and picked up several bottles of Mr. Color paints for the Thud, but I am far from ready to start that project. Just me, when I decide I want something, it's got to be today.

I am painting several cars and trucks using the little square bottles of paint. I think they work great for auto finishes but I have yet to master that glossy finish.

I will have to check out those MRP paints on my next project. They sound promising!

I wonder if you all are familiar with a couple of other paints I have found. One is MCW finishes. I found them when I went looking for paint for a 60's Pontiac engine as the market for the MM paint had dried up, I also found a green-gold for painting carburetors plus just found a texture paint for creating vinyl tops. I'm going to have to try it for a 1968 Chevelle project I am doing as I actually had one - a red Supersport with a black vinyl top.

The other paint I found is True North Paint. I found an offering of SAC bomber tan because the market for the MM version had also dried. Someday, I'm going to finish that Monogram B-52 Big, Bad and Beautiful kit!

 

I just checked the Mr Color acrylics, looks like they have a good selection of thr FS colors. I think I will get those instead of mixing tamiya acrylics.,

Wow, your mention of the green-gold for carburetors took me back to my old hot rodding days. Ran a Chevy 350 with a Holley 4160-1850 600 cfm for many years, then graduated to the 4150-4777 650 cfm double pumper. Those were good times!

The Wild Weasel should be a fun build! The Thud has always been one of my very favorite planes.

I stopped tonight and picked up several bottles of Mr. Color paints for the Thud, but I am far from ready to start that project. Just me, when I decide I want something, it's got to be today.

I am painting several cars and trucks using the little square bottles of paint. I think they work great for auto finishes but I have yet to master that glossy finish.

I will have to check out those MRP paints on my next project. They sound promising!

I wonder if you all are familiar with a couple of other paints I have found. One is MCW finishes. I found them when I went looking for paint for a 60's Pontiac engine as the market for the MM paint had dried up, I also found a green-gold for painting carburetors plus just found a texture paint for creating vinyl tops. I'm going to have to try it for a 1968 Chevelle project I am doing as I actually had one - a red Supersport with a black vinyl top.

The other paint I found is True North Paint. I found an offering of SAC bomber tan because the market for the MM version had also dried. Someday, I'm going to finish that Monogram B-52 Big, Bad and Beautiful kit!

burrito king

Hi jimbot58, my old MM enamels are pretty thick and muddy. On my recent Me-262, I had trouble getting the right consistency for my airbrush.  I had to use 4:1 ratio of thinner to paint to get decent flow.

I am currently working on a P-38 that will use alclad alc-101 aluminum NMF. But my next build will be the F-105 in SEA camo. I might have MM in one or two of the colors. But I think I will end up using Tamiya acrylics for the whole thing. I will miss the MM, but I am looking forward to working with the Tamiya acrylics. Who knows, I might end up liking those even more than MM.

 

I use Tamiya acrylics (along with several other acrylics) and they are forgiving to mix and spray nice, especially the flats. The gloss paints are nice too but I think the Tamiya LP lacquers in gloss are even nicer. I use Mr Leveling Thinner in both the Tamiya lacquers or the acrylics. So you can come down to stocking one thinner for both paints if you want to. Actually for the flat acrylic you can use hardware store lacquer thinner, the real stuff not the new synthetic green friendly stuff.

You can thin Tamiya acrylic with various alcohols or use their X-20 thinner which is a combination of various alcohols but even at the Tamiya website it states you will get a harder finish with LT.

You can use up what you have left of MM thinner on the Testors square bottle enamel. But hardware store lacquer thinner works great with those as well.

I have had problems with Model Master paints going gooey in the bottle, even unopened ones.   In particular flat black, chrome yellow, and flat red.  The black separates from its carrier liquid, and behaves like oil and water when stirred.  When thinned with regular paint thinner, it does not really mix, and these tiny little spots of pigment start to appear.  Needelss to say the paint does not spray well when it is like that, and it just has to be thrown away.  The red and yellow start to turn white in the botttle, and once they do that, they don't mix well with thinner and they need to get tossed.

I have been having problems with store bought mineral spirits and lacquer thinner,  in that they don't seem to "emulsify" the paints anymore.  Even during airbrush cleanup, I start with a little Mr Color Thinner first, as that dissolves the paint immediately.  I then follow with hardware store lacquer thinner to finish up.  Same thing for paint brushes.  I have been told that the commerial paint stores have better lacquer thinner that supposedly works like the old stuff, but have not tried it.

Jimbot58 and Burrito King, if you haven't already seen them, check out MRP lacquers too.  HUGE variety of FS and other miltary colors...and they cure in less than an hour.  No thinning required with these, as they're all airbrush ready.