Color and Light!

South Aussie

Member since
August 2003
From: South Australia

Posted by South Aussie on Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:51 PM

This thread highlights the problem of trying to get a 100% match to colors in references to the model.

SoapBox [soapbox]

IMHO I beleive this is almost impossible due to the reasons highlighted, one could go crazy trying. I gave up trying to get perfect matches years ago as I found that this was like Banged Head [banghead]

and was beginning to lessen my enjoyment of modeling. I think saltydog's final words (" i guess what i'm trying to say is, just follow the instructions provided and you wont have any trouble!!") says it all.

I now model on the principle that the only person that I have to satisfy with the finish my models is me, but I must admit I do like to receive feedback on my models from other modellers. SoapBox [soapbox]

Wayne I enjoy getting older, especially when I consider the alternative.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:27 PM

Sorry for repost but this is pertinent to the above I posted...

http://www.aracnet.com/~cec/rr/photos.html <-- Have fun.. :)

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:06 PM

I know this might be off topic but a guy named John Allen about 20+ years ago built one of THE most amazing hobby rail roads called the (Gorre and Daphetid, or Gory and Defeated) in his basement ever, he got his start by working with photography on prototype railroads and eventually used lighting effects from real life in his own HO hobby rail road, if you can find his books he explains the entire photo-optic + Lighting "tricks".

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:37 PM

thats why i use florecent lighting for building too D, the incadesenet lighting is much too hot to work around!! later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:26 AM

I would also point out, besides everything snowy mentioned, that outside of the lighting of the photos, the type of film can have a huge impact on color representation. Certain films we use give us more color saturation, other more natural, others more warm, cold...you get the idea. Thankfully in my work their is always Photoshop to make things "look" right. I use GE compact flourescent blubs (soft white and have both the spiral and dimmable) for my workspace area. The compacts fit into regular light bulb sockets and provide a steady light temperature through its life, little to no heat, and much more efficient than incadescent.

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wbill76

Member since
July 2004
From: Texas

Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:18 PM

I've discovered the same thing salty, especially when doing camo patterns for armor. I always have to resist that temptation to tinker with it because in the back of mind I know that the colors haven't all been applied yet and there are still more steps with weathering and using washes/filters that will alter the finish even further.

BP Models

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:48 PM

thats true jim, i shoot all of my photos under GE reveal bulbs. thanks friend. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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Jim Barton

Member since
February 2003

Posted by Jim Barton on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:34 PM

In the "General Modeling Discussions" folder, there was a thread titled "Lamps and Lighting" that you might find worth looking for. I use GE Reveal light bulbs in my workbench lamp, myself. They're less yellow than the conventional incandescent bulb.

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

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maddafinga

Member since
March 2003
From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma

Posted by maddafinga on Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:26 PM

I deal with this effect every single day at work. We always check shades in the room's light, outside, and with a good flourescent, that way we can shoot for a color that matches the best in all three. The goal is something that is undetectable as something artificial.

Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:21 AM

Then there's "Metamerism" whereby 2 colours appear to match perfectly under one set of lighting conditions (say daylight Fluoro) at your workbench, yet look like 2 different colours under the incandescent lighting in your living room (normal light bulb). Never trust published photos for definitive colour reference, they can only be used as a general guide. There are too many variables in the repro chain. The digital camera or scanner interprets the original scene in it's own way, your computer monitor then interprets those colours in it's own way (thats why the same colour can look very different on different monitors), then of course the printing press will reproduce those same colours according to how the printer adjusts and maintains it during the print run. Oh, and if he has worked a 12 hour shift and his eyes are tired, what he finishes the run with, may have drifted away from what he started with 12 hours ago. Trust me ...............I'm a printer! Interesting topic Salty, but don't sweat over the colours on the box top too much mate, they may be wrong.

Cheers...Snowy

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:59 PM

jeff, you lookin' sweet in your sig bubba!!! Thumbs Up [tup]

IMHO, you look kinda drunk my friend, did you get toasted before your wedding?LOL. just teasing friend. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:39 PM

Find it

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:59 AM

It isn't always just the light. Adjacent colors have a much larger affect on how a color is perceived than you would think. Take a white block and surround it with red blocks and you'll swear the white is pink. I used to have a link to a very good article on how to use adjacent colors to change the perception of color. I'll see if I can find it tonight.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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rjkplasticmod

Member since
February 2003
From: A Spartan in the Wolverine State

Posted by rjkplasticmod on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:27 AM

Lighting has a very definite effect on how color is percieved by the eye. I do my painting under daylight Flourecsent bulbs, but it can look quite different when viewed under incandecsent light. One of the model model mags ran an article on this several months ago. They showed photos of a 1/48 P-51B model painted in OD over NG & photographed under different light conditions. The OD ranged from a rather bright green to a very drab brown. That is why you can't always rely on published photos for color matching.

Regards, Rick

RICK

At My Age, I've Seen It All, Done It All, But I Don't Remember It All...

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:01 AM

Yep I had the same problem with RAF Ocean gray on my Spitfire, the first coat was too dark, so I made a new mix with 15% white and doesn´t convince me. But like you said I followed the tips on scale effect an when I apply the RAF Dark Green (15 % yellow) the ocean gray turns out clearer!!! Cool [8D]

, the plane looks right.

I think it is the contrast between colours, the dark green makes the ocean gray look clearer, anyway I am very happy with the results.

later.

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Color and Light!

Posted by saltydog on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:27 AM

it just amazes the relationship between color and light. for example, the desert camo on the F-5 below calls for dark tan, as does the A-37 dragonfly. now, the same bottle of dark tan was used for both projects and look how different the color looks in the 2 schemes represented!! the first coat i painted on the A-37 was lightend so much because i was looking at the F-5 i have and comparing some of the actual photo's of the model on the box of the A-37 and was thinking, there is no way the dark tan is the right color!! i finally ended up spraying the dark tan at a 10:1 dark tan to white ratio and let it go. it seemed too dark to my eye all the way up to the photographs that i took and the dark tan changed colors once again and looks really close to the model on the box!! man, i have a long way to go when it comes to colors!! the dark tan is the color on the aft part of the canopy and comes down the left side of the fuselage in the photo of the F-5. i probably spent an hour trying to mix the color that my eye saw on the box and in all reality, it was the lighting of the subject and the adjacent colors that fooled me into thinking it was a different color!! i guess what i'm trying to say is, just follow the instructions provided and you wont have any trouble!! Big Smile [:D]