First Airbrush?

Thanks John, sorry I haven't replied earlier, I missed your post. I'm concentrating on building mainly 1/48 airplane models at the mo, so not as fiddly as your 1/72 tanks I suppose. The Focus one looks interesting and good value at discountart. Or rather, not as much of a rip off as other UK outlets probably Get back to me on the compressors as that's as big an investment it seems.

On shipping from US, I think it would cost as much again in fees, but it still probably works out cheaper than buying in the UK

Darren

Albion, Im on a similar position to you in that im in the UK and starting from scratch on the airbrush front. I have however had the opportunity to use my Dads Badger 200 for the last 10 years while I still lived at home.

Before investing in a brush it might be worth considering what type of models you intend to build. This will have a major bearing on what type of brush will suffice. Before I moved out I made mainly 1/72 scale aircraft and 1/24 scale racing cars. The Badger 200 is an excellent brush for these type of models. It can spray pretty much any type of paint (including Halfords car paints!) and using paper masks even the most complex camouflage schemes can be authentically repilcated.

More recently ive moved into building 1/72 tanks and armour (they take up less space!). The fact that you cant mask tanks very easily has meant that ive begun to look into getting a double action brush that can spray very fine lines. The brush ive settled on is the Simair Focus. It gets very good reviews and can be found at a good price, £65.95 here http://www.discountart.co.uk/ It is roughly equivalent to a Badger 100 but cheaper. Most art shops seem to stock them so spares shouldnt be an issue.

If your after a compromise it might be worth considering the Revell proffesional series brushes. These are re-badged T&C Vega models and can be found at Hannants.

Not much you can do about the prices though, just another example of rip-off Britain i'm afraid. Ill post my findings on compressors later, hope this helps.

Regards
John

I tried getting both Dixieart & Bearair to ship to a friend who was in the US on business, and neither would using my credit card, as the shipping address and the billing address were not the same.

I could have paid by an international money order, but didn't feel comfortable with this as it didn't seem to offer a great deal of come back in the event of any problems.

Karl

only? I had to pay $7 for my mig 21, and when it came, I had to pay another $15

But i think buyhing a badger 100 or something from dixie art will be cheaper then the $169 it costs here

Think about this- when someone buys an airbrush from the US and has it sent to another country you end up paying a lot for shipping because import fees and such so shipping can cost more thatn the airbrush. The distributor that imports them has to pay these fees too, that's why a $57 dollar airbrush is three times as much in the UK. Here's an idea; if it is bought here in the US and someone ships it to you by way of theUS postal service, shipping is going to be about $10.
John

Just to put in my own 2 cents, I got my Paasche VL a couple weeks ago...
Getting my SilentAire Scorpion2 compressor in a few days from (www.dixieart.com), once its delivered.....

I am VERY VERY VERY psyched.....

Darren,

What would it cost to buy one from the US and have it sent to you there?
I would go that route if possible as the prices you mentioned are rediculous. [:0]

Mike

Where's Mike??? Hey Mike, can you get us about a dozen Omni 4000's? We're gonna make a fortune!

That price difference is truly amazing, and I don't understand it. That is at or above suggested retail. I can understand your reluctance to lay out that much cash when just starting out in a hobby.

In place of a compressor you might check around and see what it costs to rent a CO2 tank. Places like welding supply companies or companies that provide CO2 for soft drink dispensers rent the tanks, and sometimes the regulators. That is an excellent source of propellant for an airbrush and might be less than a compressor. It's also totally silent.

Just to put this into context for those from the US, I can get the Badger 200 for 48 quid from mainlytrains, which converts at the moment to 87.4460 US dollars. The Badger 150 at Hannants is 92 quid which is 167.605 US dollars. I notice that if I put badger 150 into Google the first result is a US shop selling it for 57 dollars!!

Then I have to buy a compressor, which will no doubt be considerably more here too. For someone new to the hobby spending around 250 quid up front, 455 US dollars, is too much.

Darren

QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity QUOTE: I also advocate a double-action airbrush for a beginner as it will retain it's usefulness as you grow in skills and they are not any harder to learn on. If you are certain you will never need a double-action airbrush ever then I would go with something like the Badger 200 or something similar. I'm with Mike. I don't see any point in buying a single action brush only to wish you had gotten a double action in a few months. Start out with what you plan to use and then learn to use it well.

Trouble is, it's twice the price of a single action in the UK, and three times the price it would be in the US!

Great if you can justify iy, but I don't think Albion can.

Karl

QUOTE: I also advocate a double-action airbrush for a beginner as it will retain it's usefulness as you grow in skills and they are not any harder to learn on. If you are certain you will never need a double-action airbrush ever then I would go with something like the Badger 200 or something similar.

I'm with Mike. I don't see any point in buying a single action brush only to wish you had gotten a double action in a few months. Start out with what you plan to use and then learn to use it well.

I also advocate a double-action airbrush for a beginner as it will retain it's usefulness as you grow in skills and they are not any harder to learn on.
If you are certain you will never need a double-action airbrush ever then I would go with something like the Badger 200 or something similar.

Mike

Jeff, go see a doctor imediately,

I haven't been cleared by the FDA yet for appreciation in the US

You gotta love that Omni.

The 'stang looks real nice too.

Karl

hmm rex x.... Karl you are rubbing off on me

I second the omni 4000. great brush all around and a sweet heart to you as you learn it.

I use the 4000 on this model. It's atomization and control where awesome.

[Forgive me, fellow modellers, for I must revise my original post, which contained a major, major error. I did not mean "a Badger 150," I meant a Badger 350.]

I am shocked, SHOCKED at how our fellow modelers in the Motherland are being price-gouged on simple, bottom-of-the-line Badger airbrushes. For a first airbrush I always recommend the Badger 350. Let's face it, you gotta know the basics of airbrushing: how to clean it, best air pressure for the job at hand, and a hundred other basics that must be mastered before even considering a double-action or a super fine nozzle.
I continued to use that 350 for large jobs long after I was capable of using a more sophisticated brush (and I use it to this day). Oh, year, and that good ol' Badger 350 has very few parts that can go bad on you.

Tom

QUOTE: I suppose that is the point though. I'm not sure what I want to use, or how much I will use it. And as Karl has pointed out the difference in price between the dual and single action in the UK is vast. I could get a dual action one and decide it's not for me or it doesn't get used as much as I thought, and I'll have wasted a whole load of dosh. So, there is a strong argument for going down the cheaper option initially, if it doesn't mean substandard. I like the sound of it being easier to clean too as I've read they're a bit of a pain in that respect.

That being the case the 200 would be a good choice. There is absolutely nothing substandard about it, it is a fine airbrush. I've had mine for about 10 years and there is only one warning I'd mention. There is a Teflon washer that goes between the head and body. Over time that washer will tend to flatten and the airflow will pulsate. I'd recommend getting a couple of spare washers and also loosening the head when the airbrush is not in use.

QUOTE: I am tempted by the Badger 200 Karl. Will the propellant can that comes with it see me through a model or two or are they no use? If I could spend 50 quid initially to get going that would be great. There's no way I'm going to spend £200+ at the moment. So, if that's the alternative there is no option, apart from sticking with brushes.

I've tried to use propellant cans before and not had any luck with them. The pressure varies constantly and when you get everything set the way you want it the pressure goes down because the can got cold or the can warms up and the pressure goes back up. You can get a "General Purpose" compressor at a hardware store that will do the job. They are less expensive than an airbrush compressor and the only drawback is that they are noisy.

Darren, if you are anything like me then, the propellant can won't last you too long!

However if you place the can in a shallow dish of warm water it will make it last longer, as well as preventing a loss of pressure as the can ices up. I wasted a couple of cans that way.

The main thing is to just practise spraying and and mixing the paint initially. I don't know what paints you have used for your first model, but I prefer using acrylics as they are easier to clean up afterwards, and only need water or isopropyl alcohol to thin.

One of the large air cans for around £5 should last a model or two, especially if to stick to single colour models to build your skills up on.

Karl

QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity I recommend that people start learning with what they ultimately think they will end up with. If a SA brush is all they want, that's fine. If they think they will move over to a DA brush at some point I think that's where they should start.

I suppose that is the point though. I'm not sure what I want to use, or how much I will use it. And as Karl has pointed out the difference in price between the dual and single action in the UK is vast. I could get a dual action one and decide it's not for me or it doesn't get used as much as I thought, and I'll have wasted a whole load of dosh. So, there is a strong argument for going down the cheaper option initially, if it doesn't mean substandard. I like the sound of it being easier to clean too as I've read they're a bit of a pain in that respect.

I am tempted by the Badger 200 Karl. Will the propellant can that comes with it see me through a model or two or are they no use? If I could spend 50 quid initially to get going that would be great. There's no way I'm going to spend £200+ at the moment. So, if that's the alternative there is no option, apart from sticking with brushes.

Darren

QUOTE: ... Then again, some disagree totally with this, but that's always the way

Karl is right in that the Badger 200 is a great single-action airbrush, I have one to, but I also think that starting with a double action airbrush is the way to go. A DA brush just gives you a lot more control, nobody who uses one will argue that point. If you get a single-action brush then sooner or later, assuming you keep painting, you are going to want the greater control offered by a DA brush. That being the case, why not just start out with a DA brush and avoid havnig to purchase two of them?

The argument for starting with a SA brush is generally that they are easier to manipulate. If a person is not familiar with airbrushing at all, then they already have a pretty good learning curve ahead of them to get proficient with one. Adding the technique of pushing the trigger and pulling at the same time is not adding much to what they already need to learn. I recommend that people start learning with what they ultimately think they will end up with. If a SA brush is all they want, that's fine. If they think they will move over to a DA brush at some point I think that's where they should start.

Darren, there is an argument that you might as well start with a double action, and learn to use that.

However that does not take into the price differential between single and double action prices in the UK. In the US it's only a few dollars, over here we are talking twice the price!

The 200 is a very good brush, which with a little practise will give you excellent results. Many of the those now using Omni 4000s and the like, cut their teeth on Badger 200s.

Here's a couple of links to a model I painted entirely using a Badger 200 to give an idea of what you can do:

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v351/KT200/000_0089.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v351/KT200/000_0088.jpg

Karl

Thanks, Karl, I'll look into that. I did say in my initial post that I wanted dual action, but since then I've read comments from people on usenet and the web saying that it isn't neccesarily the best option for a beginner modeller. Then again, some disagree totally with this, but that's always the way

Darren

Albion, you could always try a Badger 200.

I forgot to mention this one. It's a single action AB, so easy to use and keep clean. It's what I started out with. Spares are readily available here in the UK, Mainlytrains stock both the brush and the spares. Best of all it only costs £48.

This is a proper airbrush, from a proper manufacturer, and IMHO and well worth the money. I still use mine for certain jobs.

Karl

Thanks all for your advice. It seems two of you recommended the Omni one. I'd be a bit worried about the spares issue if I bought from the USA as you say Karl. Isn't it ridiculous that you can buy it from the US, pay more in shippings and customs than the price of the goods, and it still works out cheaper than buying it here! The cost is probably more of an issue than I initially thought too, having looked into it more and realised that I'm going to have to pay as much again or more for the compressor. Maybe I'll have to complete a few more models before I can justify it Would anyone else recommend the Revell airbrush kits for a beginner? I could justify the cost of one of those at the mo. Maybe that would be a compromise for the time being. Rather than jumping in and spending 250 quid when the paint isn't dry on my first model. Unless someone's going to tell me I'd be better of sticking to my brushes?

thanks
Darren

Albion, like you I'm on this side of the pond, ie the English side.

And like you I was shocked at the difference in price between ABs in the UK and the US.

I ended up buying an Omni 4000 from BearAir in the US, as I wasn't too impressed at the response I received from Dixieart. Bearair can be found at www.bearair.com, and I know of quite a few other people who have used them.

The Omni is a great AB, and cost me about £38!

The downside is that the shipping and customs added about £45!

That still works out at only £83 for a brand new double action AB from a known manufacturer, and shipping only took about 4 days.

Because the Omni is not available in the UK spares can appear a problem, however Shesto stock many of the common spares, as they are the same as for some of the Badger and earlier Vega brushes.(Correct me if I'm wrong on this Mike)

If you don't fancy the import route, try www.mainlytrains.co.uk, don't be put off by the title, as this site stocks a wealth of stuff all types of modelling, and they usually deliver within 48 hours. They stock a Badger 100 for £89, or a Badger 155 Anthem for £95. The 100 is gravity fed, while I think the 155 is a syphon feed.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I hope it helps.

If you need any more info, give me a shout.

Karl

or get a badger 155/100lg

The 150 is a fine airbrush, works great. I have used them for many years at work. The best bet is to buy new as you don't know what your getting used. If you use ebay ask questions as to the condition of the airbrush- what was mentioned in the above post. Most US airbrushes seem overly expensive outside the country. Have you considered the Aerograph Sprite Major or the H&S Evolution? Both of those brushes are good and the Evolution is one of the best. You can also check out the Revel airbrushes as they are the same as certain Badger and Vega models.
John

There are several things could be wrong with a used one, but that would depend on the seller of course. The needle could be bent or flattened, the nozzle split or flared, bad air valve, bad O-rings, etc.

My recommendation would be a Thayer and Chandler Omni 4000. They are about $70 from Dixie Art (www.dixieart.com) and will do anything you want from an airbrush. I'm not sure where the best place to look would be in the UK but there are several guys here from that area who can help you out.