First Airbrush

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Sunday, August 22, 2004 11:55 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by MusicCity

Mike, I knew it was between the air valve and color cup but just assumed that if I disassembled the airbrush it would come out.

Scott,

The only way to remove a needle bearing is with a special tool as they are press-fit into the airbrush like a bushing. That is why Badger tells you to send in your airbrush for repairs should the needle bearing need replacing. They have to press the old one out and put in a new one. I am not sure if the Omni one is as hard to remove though as it is a rubber-type of material.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:00 AM

Mike, I knew it was between the air valve and color cup but just assumed that if I disassembled the airbrush it would come out. I'll pay more attention next time I have it taken apart and see what I can see. Thanks for the info.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 21, 2004 8:46 PM

Scott,

I don't know if you were aware if it or not, but the needle bearing is in between the airvalve stem of the airbrush and the paint cup and cannot be seen. When you push the needle into the airbrush you can feel the friction of the needle bearing as the needle passes through it just before you see the needle tip coming through the color cup.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Saturday, August 21, 2004 5:54 PM

QUOTE: Look at part number T814 at the bottom right in this schematic, that is the Calrez needle bearing, although it is a different type than the PTFE needle bearings used in the Badgers.

It ain't there on mine and never was. I looked for one right after I got it. The brush works fine without it, and it's just one more part to worry about so I didn't Big Smile [:D]

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 21, 2004 2:45 PM

David,

You can get a Teflon needle bearing installed in that Iwata from Coast Airbrush for $14.95 if you want more protection from solvents.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Saturday, August 21, 2004 2:06 PM

I was being cautious with the Iwata Eclipse because I didn't know what was in that unkown area in the middle of the body. I didn't want to send PPG lacquer through there because it would melt rubber or whatever else might be in there. It turns out that there's nothing in there except metal even though the diagram says it has one or two rings. It's all metal inside. The needle is held suspended through the center of all of it without any noticable friction except up near the front (ahead of the color cup). So, Iwata changes things around too.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 21, 2004 10:41 AM

Scott,

I was told that the Omni 4000, 5000 and 6000 do have needle bearings.
I asked Ken about this a while back and he sent me this in an email:

QUOTE: It is a solvent resilient rubber type compound called Calrez. It has many characteristics similar to Teflon.

Look at part number T814 at the bottom right in this schematic, that is the Calrez needle bearing, although it is a different type than the PTFE needle bearings used in the Badgers.
I don't see a needle bearing listed in the schematic for the 5000 and 6000 though. Maybe I will email Ken about that.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:36 AM

If you don't want to mess with the needles of most airbrushes, you can get an Aztec cheaply at most hobby shops. I have an Aztec and I am happy with it.

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:32 AM

QUOTE: The Omni 4000 does have a needle bearing and the Omni 3000 does not.

My 4000 doesn't have a needle bearing. It's just like my 3000. Seems like I remember a post you made a while back from Ken that said some 4000's have a needle bearing and some don't.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Friday, August 20, 2004 7:43 PM

Scott,

With airbrushes that have a needle bearing the paint cannot get back into the air valve as the needle bearing prevents that.
The Omni 4000 does have a needle bearing and the Omni 3000 does not.
Most all of the Badgers have a Teflon needle bearing.
I think it is a good idea to take the needle out of the front anyhow in case you are careless and bump the needle tip on the rear of the airbrush as you remove it and possibly bend it. It is also a good idea to put the needle in from the front for the same reason, although that is not possible with the Badger 360, Anthem and Sotar. Wink [;)]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 20, 2004 9:27 AM

I agree with MusicCity 100%. My first AB was Badgers 150 ( a double action internal mix siphon feed unit ). I had never used an AB before so I didn't know that this was an "advanced" item. With no previous experiences or habits to fall back on, I did not have to relearn anything. Plus I have never understood the philosophy of owning multiple brushes. One good double action brush should be able to do everything you need. My 150 was damaged a couple of years ago after 15 years of flawless service. Last winter I bought a 155 Anthem and am very happy with it.

As far as cleaning goes I agree with mike. My needle and tip are the only things that I clean. Between coats of paint I flush my brush out with clean thinner thats in a seperate cup, that way I don't get any dried paint building up in it.

Darren

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Friday, August 20, 2004 9:07 AM

It does sound like I clean it too much, but I do a whole lot with it before I do all that.

yes, the Iwata needle can come out from either way. I have to take the whole nozzle and its cap off to do that. Doing that needs its chucking nut released from the back to reverse the needle out of all that nozzle/tip area before disassembling the front. Sometimes I do that, but I usually hold a q-tip with thinner in the cup & twist the semi-cleaned needle out towards the back. Of course I don't do that with lacquer thinner. Not with turpAtine either. Only with gentle stuff like Alcohol or water.

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Friday, August 20, 2004 7:48 AM

QUOTE: (and a few other parts if I didn't manage to get all the paint off the needle as it passed through the cup on the way out)

Not being familiar with the Iwata this may be a silly question, but can you pull the needle out from the front? On my Omni's I remove the front tip and the needle can be pulled out from the front instead of the rear. That way I don't pull paint pack into the air valve area. I also install it from the front since I feel like I'm less likely to damage the tip of the needle that way.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Friday, August 20, 2004 7:32 AM

David,

You are doing way too much unnecessary cleaning on that Iwata. Wink [;)]

I think it's time to do a sticky note on this forum on airbrush cleaning as it seems many people spend much more time than is needed cleaning their airbrushes.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Friday, August 20, 2004 12:40 AM

My Paashe H has single action, external mix parts to clean: stubby inner needle, tip cone, color cup or jar.

My Iwata Eclipse HP-BS has double action, internal mix parts to clean: long & fragile needle, nozzle, needle path (rarely), trigger hinge (and a few other parts if I didn't manage to get all the paint off the needle as it passed through the cup on the way out), nozzle housing, tip cone, internal gravity plumbing, color cup.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:01 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

There are pluses to single action airbrushes as a first airbrush. One thing is that there are less parts to clean.

Why do people think a double-action airbrush has so many parts to clean?
There is basically just the needle and the tip to have to clean when you do have to break it down to clean it, which should only be every once in a while.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:29 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

There are pluses to single action airbrushes as a first airbrush. One thing is that there are less parts to clean. The parts are usually bigger (not as fragile) too.

True, and a lot of people advocate a single-action brush for a beginner. I don't though because that's the way I started and I wish I had just started with a double action. IMO it's better to get accustomed to the style that you plan to eventually use, and for most of us that's a double action brush. I learned to paint with a single action and then had to unlearn some things and learn some new ones when I went to a double action. I could have saved some trouble by just starting with a double action.

QUOTE: Almost. It's HP-CS and HP-BS unless you really meant those micro light fluid Iwatas.

Thanks, I knew it had a "C" in it but that was all I could remember.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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mariusz

Member since
June 2004

Posted by mariusz on Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:18 PM

I would like to thank all of you for your help. Hopefully i will get one within a week.
SKI

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:35 AM

There are pluses to single action airbrushes as a first airbrush. One thing is that there are less parts to clean. The parts are usually bigger (not as fragile) too.

QUOTE: IMO your two best choices are the Omni 4000 and Iwata HP-C (is that the right model?).

Almost. It's HP-CS and HP-BS unless you really meant those micro light fluid Iwatas.

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:30 AM

IMO your two best choices are the Omni 4000 and Iwata HP-C (is that the right model?). I have two Omni's, a 3000 (siphon feed) and 4000 (gravity feed) and they do everything I want.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:07 AM

dito

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KJ200

Member since
July 2003
From: Bicester, England

Posted by KJ200 on Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:26 AM

Marius, I also use an Omni 4000, and like yourself work mainly in 1/72.

The Omni is fine enough to produce 1/72 mottle camo on Luftwaffe fighters without too much difficulty, just a lot of practise. It is also easy to clean, with excellent spares availability.

Karl

Currently on the bench: AZ Models 1/72 Mig 17PF

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Bismark

Member since
July 2004

Posted by Bismark on Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:45 AM

Hi,

Just did the same thing as you and bought a new airbrush. Omni 4000 showed up today and works like a dream. Don't bother spending any more time looking. Simple as that. Check on one of these threads for MikeV comments where he gave me a toll free number to call and you will get a 40% discount. There is no advocate like a recent convert! Good Luck.

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mariusz

Member since
June 2004

First Airbrush

Posted by mariusz on Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:15 AM

Hello,
I would like to ask all of you which brand and model of airbrush would be good for the first timer, I used to have Testor airbrush kit (pretty basic stuff) but that was over 8yrs ago. I am thinking to go back into this hobby (1/72 warplanes). Please help
"SKI"

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