IWATA IS THE BEST!!!!!!

Chris, don't be shy, tell us how you really feel . BTW, have you considered switching to DeCaf ? .

Regards, Rick

saltydog, that is hilarious! I'm sure MikeV will be around shortly to whip your @ss again.

Here are some Iwata Eclipse gravity vs Omni 4000 questions:

What are they plated with?

What are the needles made of? Which needle is stronger?

Which one has the best way of keeping the needle locked in and centered?

Which one has less internal non-metal parts which can be ruined by auto lacquer reducer?

Which one's color cup is easier to clean out? Can you reach the needle with a swab from inside the color cup?

Which one has the shortest paint path from the cup to the nozzle?

Paasche!!!

...and is there also a .5 mm nozzle/needle set that can fit the Omni 4000 like there is for the Iwata Eclipses?

I know the answers to a bunch of these. I'm just causing ya'll to have to do some work for the spectators

and don't forget PRICE!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337 and don't forget PRICE!!

It's not just to find out which one costs less. It would be good to find out the differences in order to see if someone might want a $105 airbrush or a $70 airbrush.

the fit and finish of the iwata are not worth $40

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337 the fit and finish of the iwata are not worth $40

how 'bout some details on why you say that though?

There's more to it than fit and finish because it's not like these two airbrushes are using the same interchangeable parts.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb ...and is there also a .5 mm nozzle/needle set that can fit the Omni 4000 like there is for the Iwata Eclipses?

No there is only one needle/tip combo for the Omnis. They can perform quite well the way they are and you don't need to waste even more money for another needle/tip combo that has no real benefits.

QUOTE: I know the answers to a bunch of these. I'm just causing ya'll to have to do some work for the spectators

And how do you know the answers to these questions David?
Is this from your own personal experience or what?

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb There's more to it than fit and finish because it's not like these two airbrushes are using the same interchangeable parts.

Actually it is nothing more than perception.
People seem to think that the Iwata is a better airbrush since it is more money, but it is not.
Also, you cannot compare the Omni 4000 to the Eclipse HP-CS as they are not in the same category. The Badger 100LG would be in the same catagory as the HP-CS as far as design goes.
Since you are asking all these questions then maybe you can tell me why the Omni 4000 is not in the same category as the HP-CS?

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb Here are some Iwata Eclipse gravity vs Omni 4000 questions: What are they plated with?

Chrome, what else?

QUOTE: What are the needles made of? Which needle is stronger?

That is a subjective answer as I have heard one is stronger than the other and vise versa.

QUOTE: Which one has the best way of keeping the needle locked in and centered?

They use the same method, but needle centering is inconsequential to the performance anyhow.

QUOTE: Which one has less internal non-metal parts which can be ruined by auto lacquer reducer?

The Omni as the Eclipse does not have a solvent resistant needle bearing from the factory. Maybe you could tell me what the Omni needle bearing is made from?

QUOTE: Which one's color cup is easier to clean out?

What do you mean by "easier"? They are both pretty easy to clean.

QUOTE: Can you reach the needle with a swab from inside the color cup?

I don't use swabs as they can leave lint in the airbrush. Use a paintbrush instead.

QUOTE: Which one has the shortest paint path from the cup to the nozzle?

Not sure really. What does it matter?

Mike

QUOTE: No there is only one needle/tip combo for the Omnis. They can perform quite well the way they are and you don't need to waste even more money for another needle/tip combo that has no real benefits.

I consider a .5 mm tip a benefit for more even and faster coverage of metal flake paint on car bodies and any other metal flake painted model I might do. If I were to do a scale metal flake speedboat paint job, I could use a .35 mm, but I'd rather use a .5 mm for the most overall paint layer.

A .5 mm tip gets a non-metallic scale auto gloss coat done with a lot less overlapping. It's mostly straight across with larger coverage in each stroke. Less overlapping is fewer chances for error, a more level paint job for faster, even drying, and less finishing work in the Micromesh phase.

QUOTE: And how do you know the answers to these questions David? Is this from your own personal experience or what?

Yep, and the only experience I don't have pertaining to this is that I don't have an Omni. So, maybe an Omni 4000 user will come along and produce some straight answers.

QUOTE: People seem to think that the Iwata is a better airbrush since it is more money, but it is not.

I don't see anyone saying Iwata is better because it costs more.

QUOTE: Also, you cannot compare the Omni 4000 to the Eclipse HP-CS as they are not in the same category. The Badger 100LG would be in the same catagory as the HP-CS as far as design goes. Since you are asking all these questions then maybe you can tell me why the Omni 4000 is not in the same category as the HP-CS?

Or maybe no one cares what categories these are in? They'd rather hear the head-to-head comparisons rather than get the runaround.

QUOTE: Can you reach the needle with a swab from inside the color cup? I don't use swabs as they can leave lint in the airbrush. Use a paintbrush instead.

It doesn't have to be a swab. It can be one of those Badger dabbers that are like nylon q-tips or whatever they're made of. Do you get a clear view and good cleaning access of a large section of needle from inside the color cup? I don't have an Omni to look down inside of, but I can do this easily with the Iwata Eclipse.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb I consider a .5 mm tip a benefit for more even and faster coverage of metal flake paint on car bodies and any other metal flake painted model I might do. If I were to do a scale metal flake speedboat paint job, I could use a .35 mm, but I'd rather use a .5 mm for the most overall paint layer.

Then buy a Badger Crescendo and really put out some paint.

QUOTE: Yep, and the only experience I don't have pertaining to this is that I don't have an Omni. So, maybe an Omni 4000 user will come along and produce some straight answers.

I have an Omni 4000 and the HP-CS and the performance is practically the same in many ways. What do you want to know in particular?

QUOTE: I don't see anyone saying Iwata is better because it costs more.

That is not what I said. I said that people "perceive" it as better as it is higher priced.

QUOTE: Or maybe no one cares what categories these are in?

If the category does not matter than how can you have a fair comparison?
You have to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges.
The Eclipse HP-CS has a micro-tip and the Omni 4000 does not, that in itself makes the HP-CS capable of slightly finer lines than the Omni. That is why I mentioned the Badger 100LG as being in the same category as it is also a micro-tip design.

QUOTE: They'd rather hear the head-to-head comparisons rather than get the runaround.

What runaround is that? This subject has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseam and the fact still remains that the airbrush does not make the artist, and since everyone's opinion varies this is a subjective question and not an objective one so there is no "better" one.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb Do you get a clear view and good cleaning access of a large section of needle from inside the color cup? I don't have an Omni to look down inside of, but I can do this easily with the Iwata Eclipse.

Yes, actually the Omni 4000 has a larger cavity in the bottom of the cup than the Eclipse.

Mike

QUOTE: What runaround is that?

At first, I felt that the redirection to the 100LG was a runaround taking the focus off the Omni 4000, but my second thought is that there's no reason to exclude the 100LG. If it's included there should be specs and details rather than mere categorical classifications.

QUOTE: This subject has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseam and the fact still remains that the airbrush does not make the artist, and since everyone's opinion varies this is a subjective question and not an objective one so there is no "better" one.

So if I want to paint a crazy extremely sparkle paint job on the Mokeymobile GTO with a .5 mm tip, the Omni is no better than an Iwata Eclipse?

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb QUOTE: What runaround is that? At first, I felt that the redirection to the 100LG was a runaround taking the focus off the Omni 4000, but my second thought is that there's no reason to exclude the 100LG. If it's included there should be specs and details rather than mere categorical classifications.

What specs and details do you want to know?

QUOTE: So if I want to paint a crazy extremely sparkle paint job on the Mokeymobile GTO with a .5 mm tip, the Omni is no better than an Iwata Eclipse?

No. When I refer to "better" I am talking about quality.
You are talking about what is more suitable for the job at hand and that is where different airbrushes would be better suited depending on the need.

Mike

No one has pointed out yet that the one benefit I am emphasizing about Iwata Eclipse is that it raises the price of the Eclipse by about $18 to buy the .5 mm stuff for it. So there I am being fair about it. But the point is, it can be done without buying another airbrush for $70 or more. You get the ultra fine detail airbrush with its stock .35 mm tip, and no need to fork out more than $20 for a .5 mm option.

or you can get a badger 100

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Aztek 470.

Only last week I read of an Iwata and a 470 being refered to as equals on this forum, something I am happy has never been said about my Omni!

Karl

A precision tool with better tolerances, that has a better balance that operates smoother and has better quality materials has greater odds of completing a desired goal with minimal effort. A well-thought out design that has been refined as well as a Japanese airbrush can inspire more confidence in a beginner because of its smooth operation. That same airbrush can allow a professional less stress and allow that professional less fatigue to work longer or do better quality work.

Just because a couple of members at FSM want to save a couple of dollars and promote a cheaper product with less design tolerance and different material makes does not mean I have to agree with them. I want to spend more money for an airbrush with more chrome and stainless steel needles, more precision crafted tolerances, a smoother paint bowl that is easier to clean. It makes me feel good-I want to be pampered with a precision feeling airbrush. Other members at FSM like to be pampered too. We can afford it. I can also afford the luxury in knowing I have tried many other brands of airbrushes over many years-not just a single session sample. The airbrush I use cost more then the other brand but I don’t care. I know what I’m getting since I’ve used the brand for over 21 years. And I don’t care if the parts cost more in my airbrush because I know I’m getting my moneys worth. I simply want to spend more money for an airbrush I like and not what other people badger me to get. So don’t trash a person if they spend more money than you did on an airbrush. They simply might have wanted to spend more. It is an emotional feeling and not a logical one.

I continue to use the airbrush brand I first laid hands on 21 years ago. I made an excellent choice back then and have been trying to find an airbrush that is better than the brand I chose. Yes, I’ve been airbrushing for longer than some people have been born. I’ve tried the majority of the other airbrushes many times but I still go back to the first brand of airbrush I chose years ago. I’ve even converted other people, by their own choice, from using the cheaper brand and using my brand of airbrush.

I have had the experience of time and many opportunities to try different airbrushes. I do not care what country the airbrush comes from as long as it does the job beyond what I expected it to do with it pampering me all the way. The Japanese just happened to refine an airbrush I like. If I found a Russian airbrush I liked better then I would use that one too.

Airbrushes were my work and are now a part of my hobby. I’m very serious about using the best airbrush I can find. All airbrushes I own I bought trying to find a single airbrush that is better than the one I bought 21 years ago. I tried other brands but they didn’t make my subjective “feel” grade.

I do not have the luxury of getting free gifts from one airbrush manufacturer to entice me to sell their brand of airbrush. I am also not a representative of any airbrush company so I do not make money promoting one brand of airbrushes. . I enjoy being open-minded and trying different airbrushes with unbiased thinking. To me an airbrush is always a learning opportunity while some members here think they know everything and must teach the flock of their knowledge.

The other brands of airbrushes gather dust now. Because of those reasons listed above I still use my Iwata airbrushes.

Now I’ll go back to ghosting FSM again.

When it comes down to it, performance is all that matters. And my Iwata enables me to do things that I've never been able to do in the past.

For years I was a Badger man, but that was only because all I had for comparison was a Paasche H.

The Badger 200 siphon model was my workhorse (I hated that damn 150) and I used it for pretty much everything. If I had alotta stuff to paint all one color, then I used the Paasche. They each served a definite purpose in the shop.

And because I was exposed to only those particular brushes for a certain period of time, I basically knew no better than the Badger 200 and Paasche H.

I tried a few other brushes; the Paasche VL and V-Junior, Badger 175 Crescendo, 155 Anthem and 360 Universal. Didn't like any of 'em. Even that Zoltar (Sotar) brush was mighty disappointing.

And I won't even go near an Aztek. Pure sh**...

Then I took a pal's Iwata Eclipse for a test drive and it was all over. That brush was the easiest of all of 'em for me to initially get on and spray. Within five minutes I was convinced that I had to have one, and I HATED double action brushes at that time. Now, I can't see myself buying anything else than an Iwata.

But then again, there's plenty of other brushes out there which I've yet to try...


Fade to Black...

Hmm I see we are doing this again !! hehehe!!! OK

well I have a Badger 360-1, Im not sure how big the nozzle is but I'd say about 0.5 - 0.6 mm, Its good for applying primer and base coats.
I also have a European Airbrush, a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution. This is a very good airbrush, I have even seen articles where they compare it directly with the best Iwata airbrushes, I haven't had a chance to do that myself so I can't confirm or deny the truth of this. The good thing is that it comes with a 0.2 mm and a 0.4 mm nozzle / needle, its easy to get spare parts, you can get an adapter for a side mounted siphon feed cup, it comes with to paint cups of different sizes and its relatively cheap.

QUOTE: Hmm I see we are doing this again !! hehehe!!! OK

Yeah, here we go again. It's been about a week since we went through this discussion. I'm only surprised it took this long.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: An airbrush is a TOOL. Anyone who reads any more into one than that needs to look into their perceptions of reality. An airbrush is a TOOL and as such is only as good as the hand that holds it. If someone expects any particular brand or model of airbrush to turn then into an instant Picasso they are going to be disappointed. Buy a quality tool, learn to use it well, never look back.

QUOTE: Originally posted by roosterfish Just because a couple of members at FSM want to save a couple of dollars and promote a cheaper product with less design tolerance and different material makes does not mean I have to agree with them.

Nobody said you had to agree with anyone.
If you like the brand you have then good for you, that is all that matters.

QUOTE: I do not have the luxury of getting free gifts from one airbrush manufacturer to entice me to sell their brand of airbrush.

I knew that was going to get slipped in there somewhere. Sad.

QUOTE: I am also not a representative of any airbrush company so I do not make money promoting one brand of airbrushes.

And neither are any of us, so what's the point of making that statement other than to try and discredit my opinion?

QUOTE: . I enjoy being open-minded and trying different airbrushes with unbiased thinking

So do I, but since I don't agree on the brand you like that somehow makes my opinion biased in your estimation.

QUOTE: To me an airbrush is always a learning opportunity while some members here think they know everything and must teach the flock of their knowledge.

I see another ad hominem attack against me. I do not know everything and never will but I guess when envy and resentment creeps in it doesn't matter anyway.
Maybe I'll just stop posting here so I don't lead the flock astray any longer as my opinions for whatever estimation in your eyes are not as valid as yours.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV I see another ad hominem attack against me. I do not know everything and never will but I guess when envy and resentment creeps in it doesn't matter anyway. Maybe I'll just stop posting here so I don't lead the flock astray any longer as my opinions for whatever estimation in your eyes are not as valid as yours.

Don't worry Mike !! I have been called a wise guy aswell sometimes when all I did was to try and help some one, and that someone even thanked me for my help, but then some i***t called me a wise guy.
I for one respect your opinion, and I always look forward to your replies on airbrush matters. You never claim to be right, but you have a huge experience and it would be a great loss if you stoped posting so please don't.

I for one say that Brand does not matter. If you like aztek, then by all means buy a 470. If you like badger, then by all means go buy one. It doesn't matter which brand airbrush you like, if you like it, then good. I am getting mighty angry at the guys who try to convert you from 1 brand to another. "Buy a hp-cs, it's better than the omni 4000." That's just your opinion. Also, you cannot compare the Iwata to the Omni. They are in two completely different classes alltogether. A better comparison would be the hp-b/c to the Badger 100LG/g. They are both airbrushes used by artists everywhere, people tend to think that
by paying almost double the price of the badger, they are getting a MUCH better product. However, not a product that is $60 more than the badger. Maybe the fit and finish is a little better, maybe one can do a little finer line, a little more control, perhaps a more ergonomic design. But in the end, what really matters is how much you like it, and thats all. I personally prefer any airbrush that works [not-aztek] and is easy to clean, reliable, and able to do semi-fine lines with practice. People tend to think that by buying a $140+ airbrush, they are able to do fine lines without practice. True, the Iwata can do finer lines than the badger. so what?

Ok I'll end my anti-iwata rant there.

Have a good one

-1337

Salty nice topic! way to stir it up. Iwatas are nice airbrushes, I still have a few and have owned most of their airbrushes at one point or another. They even have a really nice shiny finish on top of a brass body and a stainless steel needle-hey just like almost all other airbrushes how about that! They spray nice but no nicer than most other airbrushes made today. All of this one brand versus the other is stupid- try different airbrushes out find one you like and stick with it but realize that it is the best airbrush for you not everyone else. Which airbrush is better than the next is a matter of personal preference. I CAN AIRBRUSH JUST AS WELL WITH MY $70 DOLLAR BADGER 100 THAN I CAN WITH MY MICRON, EFBE OR AEROGRAPH. Price and brand have nothing to do with how good most airbrushes are, it is the user.
John