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ab'ing question

ab'ing question

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19 replies

MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:46 PM

QUOTE: ok i think u both may have a point... ab's are designed to be able to control to air flow, but the range of control makes its tricky and fiddly... i know where both of u are coming from....

Actually air VALVES are designed to be able to control air VOLUME (not pressure, volume. Pressure is constant). The airbrush itself is designed to MIX the air and paint, and spray it in a uniform manner.

Nobody said you COULDN'T use the trigger to control the air volume, only that you SHOULDN"T use it. The volume of air and the pressure it is under are what cause the paint to be atomized in the airbrush. When you start constantly varying the paint volume and the air volume you are not going to be able to get consistant results. At low air volume the paint is not going to atomize properly and the pattern is going to be coarser and grainier. The best way to use an airbrush, in my opinion, is to use the regulator to adjust the air pressure. The air trigger is either on or off, and the paint flow is changing as necessary.

QUOTE: anyways, bak to the topic ;) im starting to get the hang of it, pull the trigger back further for spraying a whole piece, then less paint to go in closer and touch up and spots i missed... am i along the right lines??? (btw.. the finish is awesome!!! ;) )

More or less, yes you are right. Think of it like using a garden hose to wash your car. Get up close at full volume and you blow water everywhere, so you don't open the spray nozzle so much or you back away from the car. Airbrushing is the same, use enough paint volume to get the job done the way you want it, but not so much that it blows everywhere.

QUOTE: also, do u guys try to ab everypiece all the colours it has to be, doing alot of masking along the way, or just ab the main parts and hand paint the rest ( i dont think i explained that to well, but i hope u guys know what i mean)
once again, THANKS!!

Like Mike, I'll hand brush small detail parts but anything much larger than, say, a dime gets airbrushed.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:21 AM

Thanks Mike.... well i guess im gonna have to work on masking skills...:) and yes, the finish from the ab is awesome (once again) i cant wait to paint the body of my mbenz clk dtm ;)

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plasticmod992

Member since
January 2003
From: The Hoosier State

Posted by plasticmod992 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:47 AM

With the Aztek A470 type, double-action airbrushes, one can actually control both air and paint volume at the same time, using its "Dual Action" feature. To set this up, simply depress and hold the trigger down a tiny bit to release air, while slowly rotating the paint volume rear dial until a tiny dot of paint is released. Now you're all set! When you press down on the trigger , you control the air and paint volume, from a tiny dot to a large pattern without having to pull back on the trigger. This was one of my favorite functions of the Aztek double action brushes. Give it a try!

Greg Williams Owner/ Manager Modern Hobbies LLC Indianapolis, IN. IPMS #44084

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:20 PM

what mike said.

The he 177 i'm building will be my life's goal of no paintbrush, only airbrush. also no masking tape.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:16 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by tominator

ok i think u both may have a point... ab's are designed to be able to control to air flow, but the range of control makes its tricky and fiddly... i know where both of u are coming from....

They are called, "double-action" because the trigger controls the air (on/off) and the paint simultaneously, in contrast to a "single-action" which controls only the air. Just remember that it is a "double-action" airbrush and not a "double-control" airbrush.

QUOTE: im starting to get the hang of it, pull the trigger back further for spraying a whole piece, then less paint to go in closer and touch up and spots i missed... am i along the right lines??? (btw.. the finish is awesome!!! ;) )

That is somewhat along the right lines, yes.
The farther back the trigger is pulled the more paint that comes out and the wider the spray pattern. For the finest lines you will barely pull the trigger back and you will be less than 1/2" away from the surface, but it takes practice.

QUOTE: also, do u guys try to ab everypiece all the colours it has to be, doing alot of masking along the way, or just ab the main parts and hand paint the rest ( i dont think i explained that to well, but i hope u guys know what i mean)

That depends on what it is. If it is a small part like the control stick I will just paint it with a paint brush. I usually just grab all of the parts that are the same color and airbrush them all together to cut down on the times I have to get out the airbrush. If the parts are real small like the control stick mentioned then I will airbrush them the main color and use a paint brush for the black on the handle, etc. It all depends on the part you are painting.
Generally I try to airbrush as much as I can as it is smoother looking than you can get it with any paint brush.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:35 PM

ok i think u both may have a point... ab's are designed to be able to control to air flow, but the range of control makes its tricky and fiddly... i know where both of u are coming from....
anyways, bak to the topic ;) im starting to get the hang of it, pull the trigger back further for spraying a whole piece, then less paint to go in closer and touch up and spots i missed... am i along the right lines??? (btw.. the finish is awesome!!! ;) )
also, do u guys try to ab everypiece all the colours it has to be, doing alot of masking along the way, or just ab the main parts and hand paint the rest ( i dont think i explained that to well, but i hope u guys know what i mean)
once again, THANKS!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:48 PM

yep it's just an aztek thing

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:36 PM

Delbert,

That quote from Badger's website says absolutely NOTHING about controlling the air by how far down you press the trigger.
Since you mentioned Badger, Ken Schlotfeldt, who is the owner and President of Badger Airbrush Company is a good friend of mine and he agrees with what I just told you so that is the truth from the proverbial horses mouth.
You can slightly adjust the air pressure with the trigger but it is not worth messing with for the reasons I already gave.
You go ahead and do as you please because if you can control the air with your finger then you are a better airbrush user than I am after 12 years of airbrushing. In fact you are more skilled than all of the most well-known airbrush artists out there that I know of including Dru Blair.

Mike

Delbert

Member since
December 2002

Posted by Delbert on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:37 PM

From the Badger website at the following URL

http://www.badger-airbrush.com/air101.htm

"quote"

DUAL ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls both air and color (down for air, back for color). This simple maneuver allows the artist to change the width of the line, the range of value and the opacity of paint without stopping their hand motion.

"unquote"

guess they havn't a clue what they are talking about either.

by the way just checked both my 360 and 175 and if you very lightly press down the air starts slowly and then increases as u press it all the way down.. this is more visible in my 175 than the 360 but it does control the amount of air that you spray.

oh and don't mind me i'm only a self taught beginner I'm sure there are those who know better than me.

p.s. last i'll say . to me this thread is dead.

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:26 PM

I think it is an Aztek thing... I was able to do it with my Aztek... tried it for kicks with my 175 and it's nearly impossibleat least not reliable, whereas the Aztek I could regulate fairly well with the trigger....

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:16 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Delbert
hum what kind of airbrush are u usuing.. Single action perhaps or fixed double action?...

I have a Sotar 20/20, Badger 360, Badger 100LG, Badger 150, Omni 4000, Omni 3000, Vega 1000, Vega 2000, and an Iwata HP-CS.

QUOTE: another quote.. this time from Kalmbach Books "How to use an Airbrush" page 6

Quote "The Best all-around Airbrush for many Modelers is what is known as a dual-action airbrush " (also know as double action) "The button u push with your finger controls both pressure and paint flow at the same time. Pushing doen on the trigger controls the airflow. Push down a little and a small volume of air is precisely delivered. Push down a lot and more air is delivered.

The book is wrong. Big Smile [:D]

Mike

Delbert

Member since
December 2002

Posted by Delbert on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:37 PM

I think that Model Master guide must be speaking of an airbrush that varies the air flow from the trigger. Do Azteks work that way?
None of the traditional designs work that way that I have heard of, except that new Iwata gimmick. Whistling [:-^]

I quit using azteks a long time ago.. I use Badger Double Action Airbrushs. a 175 Cresendo and a 360 universal..

hum what kind of airbrush are u usuing.. Single action perhaps or fixed double action?...

another quote.. this time from Kalmbach Books "How to use an Airbrush" page 6

Quote "The Best all-around Airbrush for many Modelers is what is known as a dual-action airbrush " (also know as double action) "The button u push with your finger controls both pressure and paint flow at the same time. Pushing doen on the trigger controls the airflow. Push down a little and a small volume of air is precisely delivered. Push down a lot and more air is delivered. Pull back on the trigger slowly and the paint flow gradually changes from a fine mist to a heavy flow.. with a bit of practice and the proper consistency of paint you will be able to control the paint and airflow with precision to achive anything from a slight pebblepgraned or stippled finish to a smooth heavy, glossy finish." endquote..

by the way i also said i use a regulator to contol the pressure like you. but i use the trigger to control how much paint and air mixture I am spraying.

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:19 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Delbert
Let me see.. in Model Masters "Modeler's Technical Guide there is a deffinition.

Quote "Double Action _ Air supply is regulated by pressing the trigger. The Further Down the trigger is pressed the more air is expelled. by pulling back on the same triggger paint is introduced into the airstream. The further back one pulls the more paint is injected. " end quote.

guess u just have to have a light touch..

I have never seen or heard of any airbrush experts and manufacturers recommending trying to control the airflow with the trigger as it was not designed that way and for a good reason. You cannot reliably replicate that same amount of air each time with your finger and that is why a regulator is used. Set the pressure where you want it, push the trigger all the way down and just concentrate on how far back you pull the trigger to control the line width and pattern.

Mike

Delbert

Member since
December 2002

Posted by Delbert on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:57 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV

QUOTE: Originally posted by Delbert
Pushing down controls the flow of air the further you push down the more air u use.

That is not really true. The air is basically either on or off, as it is virtually impossible to control the airflow with the trigger.

Mike

hmm apparrently I've been doing it wrong then... I use a regulator on my tank for help keeping my air constant.. but I do varry how far down and how far back I push and pull to get the amount of paint I want..

Let me see.. in Model Masters "Modeler's Technical Guide there is a deffinition.

Quote "Double Action _ Air supply is regulated by pressing the trigger. The Further Down the trigger is pressed the more air is expelled. by pulling back on the same triggger paint is introduced into the airstream. The further back one pulls the more paint is injected. " end quote.

guess u just have to have a light touch.. unless of course your using a single action then u can't control the amount of air except through a regulator.

MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:29 PM

That's my biggest complaint about the canned air, the pressure is always changing because they get cold. If you sit the can in a pan of warm water it will help keep the pressure more stable.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:04 PM

yea, i dont like using the air can coz i cant control the pressure.... but i think i am starting to get the hang of it.... its different from using a rattle can, the spray is alot finer

i just got to remeber to spray on a piece of card first and not on the part to be painted!! ;)
2 times i screwwed the paint job up coz it came all sloppy at first...
fingers crossed i get my compressor soon....!!

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:35 PM

You just have to play with it, Tom, until you find a combination of everything that works best for you.

My trigger is either up or down, never in between. If I want to adjust the air pressure I use my regulator, not the trigger on my airbrush.

Front to back it is constantly changing. If I need more paint I pull back, if I need less I let up. That's the beauty of a double-action airbrush, there is no cut-and-dried solution, you adjust your paint flow as necessary at any given moment.

If you feel like you are using too much paint, you may be spraying at too high an air pressure and creating a lot of overspray that is not getting on the model. Your coats may also be overly heavy. Don't worry about it, a bit of practice will bring it all together.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:21 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Delbert
Pushing down controls the flow of air the further you push down the more air u use.

That is not really true. The air is basically either on or off, as it is virtually impossible to control the airflow with the trigger.

Mike

Delbert

Member since
December 2002

Posted by Delbert on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:50 AM

I use the Badger 360 which is almost exactly like the 155 except for the rotating ring that lets u use it as a siphon feed or a gravity feed..

Double action airbrushs take practice.... be prepared to use up some paint practicing on card stock or carboard. i perfered index cards for my learning as i could see the paint better.

Pushing down controls the flow of air the further you push down the more air u use. when u get a compresser I recommend shelling out for a regulator if it doesn't come with one. this helped my painting a lot.

Pulling back controls the paint.. the further u pull back the more paint you use.. if spraying at full pressure and pulling all the way back.. you will burn through the paint and prob not get the best results.. this is why practice is neccessery.

push down to start the air.. and slowly pull back till you see paint hitting the card.. learn how much pull gives u how much paint.. for small parts I generally go over it lightly 1 time.. look to see if the paint came out smooth.. then coat it again and again till it is covered to my satisfaction.. a few light coats is better than spraying a heavy coat right off the bat and hopeing it lays right with no runs.. less chance of runs with light coats too. practice and varry your distance from the card to the airbrush.. ect ect.. try to make smooth covered areas..

I prob burned through a few bottles of paint at the beginning. and now.. even though i'm not to bad at it.. whenever i set up my airbrush.. I do a couple of practice runs on index cards first just to get a feel for how the paint i'm using sprays..

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

ab'ing question

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:52 AM

hey
i just got my badger anthem set up with a can of air (i hope it asts till my compressor gets here) and i find my self going thru the paint cup real fast. is this normal? or (as i suspect) am i just pulling the trigger back to far?
how far do u guys pull the trigger back for spaying small parts( barke rotors, door panels, engine? and how far do u hold the brush away?

cheers!

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ab'ing question