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Thats it I've had it!!!!!!!....(with enamels!)

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Thats it I've had it!!!!!!!....(with enamels!)
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:43 PM
Ok,

I've decided to get rid of my enamels...well actually quit using them and save them for back up. I'm sick of the fumes, the thinners, and a few other things. So I went to the LHS today and picked up some Model Master Acryl in various colors. Spent a fair amount, but haven't even come close to replacing all the colors I had in enamels...

MikeV, I'm pretty sure I remember you telling me that you use this line of paints. Is there any help you can give me to save me from some headaches...Like thinning for airbrushing...etc. Bob@the LHS told me it takes some getting used to, especially when airbrushing but that I would probably be satisfied in the end. (I guess he don't know me as well as he thinks he does!Tongue [:P])

So any help, tips any one could give me would be greatly appreciated...

P.S....Mike do you use any lube for your needle on your Omni? I was looking around at BearAir for some misc items and notice they sold some....thought about adding it to the cart but didn't.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:45 PM
the enamal's i also tried putting up with, didn't suceed and just moved along to enamals. now i only use acrylics.

for the airbrush lube, somebody suggested a SMALL amount of wd40 and i tried it and bam problem solved again! stuff like ragdab and medea superlube is probubly better too, but I don't justify the $7+ shipping cost so I just use wd 40.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:48 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337

the enamal's i also tried putting up with, didn't suceed and just moved along to enamals. now i only use acrylics.

for the airbrush lube, somebody suggested a SMALL amount of wd40 and i tried it and bam problem solved again! stuff like ragdab and medea superlube is probubly better too, but I don't justify the $7+ shipping cost so I just use wd 40.


WD-40? Thanks but I'll pass I don't use that %^&$ on anything...it attracts more dust and grit than the lubricant value is worth, which I know might not be a major concern considering the AB Needle is kinda covered, but then I would worry with the lube(WD)re-acting and adversly affecting my paint finishes....
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:53 PM
never attracts dust for me if applied with a soft cloth
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Lower Alabama
Posted by saltydog on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:54 PM
i used to love tamiya acrylics, then began to have adhesion problems with them so i went back to enamels. i've used poly scale a few times for broad coverage, but never could get them to do fine lines very consistantly, the same with mm acryl. i'm happy with enamels, and hey, you gotta die from somethin' eh?LOL anyway, water is great for thinning mm acryl, and it seems to adhere better than other acrylics. as for needle juice, i ordered a bottle of superlube with my last airbrush purchase and it works as advertised. good luck with your transition friend, later.
Chris The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:55 PM
Hey Chris do you still have that Omni 5K? You posted on Scale Hobby?
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Lower Alabama
Posted by saltydog on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:56 PM
yep
Chris The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:59 PM
shot ya an email...
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Lower Alabama
Posted by saltydog on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:02 PM
k
Chris The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:16 PM
I use mostly MM for acrylics... they stick well and usually need little thinning.. in fact some colors I spray straight from the bottle... others I wait until they are about half full and thin for airbrushing...

It's kinda funny, but since I got my Badger 155 Anthem I am starting to spray enamels more often... (yeah yall heard right, I bought my second airbrush haha the 175 is great but the 155 does awesome detail and is easy to handle) in fact I find myself painitng more enamel than anything now, and this is good since my LHS decided to stop carrying MM Acryl... I was having to order it online...

Only probs I ever had with acryl was adhesion, like Chris said... but MM seemed the better of the two main ones I have tried... used Polly Scale once but not enough to form an opinion and only one bottle...
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Pensacola, FL
Posted by Foster7155 on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:16 PM
Hey Chris,

Swing by John's at 1:00 Saturday for our club meeting and I'll take all the enamels you have off your hands... Big Smile [:D]

Enjoy your modeling...

Robert Foster

Pensacola Modeleers

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by HistoryinScale

WD-40? Thanks but I'll pass I don't use that %^&$ on anything...


I use it to keep my shovels and such from rusting, if that helps... Wink [;)]
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Foster7155

Hey Chris,

Swing by John's at 1:00 Saturday for our club meeting and I'll take all the enamels you have off your hands... Big Smile [:D]

Enjoy your modeling...


HeHe Robert! Is the club meeting the modeleer's? Or the figure club? I have yet to be to a modeleer's meeting but have been interested in joining, I could never remember which Saturday's they were on....
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Pensacola, FL
Posted by Foster7155 on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:29 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by HistoryinScale

QUOTE: Originally posted by Foster7155

Hey Chris,

Swing by John's at 1:00 Saturday for our club meeting and I'll take all the enamels you have off your hands... Big Smile [:D]

Enjoy your modeling...


HeHe Robert! Is the club meeting the modeleer's? Or the figure club? I have yet to be to a modeleer's meeting but have been interested in joining, I could never remember which Saturday's they were on....


Modeleer's - 2nd and 4th Saturdays every month (except last month, of course). This will be our first post-Ivan meeting. Something to get our minds off all the stuff going on.

Robert Foster

Pensacola Modeleers

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 8:53 PM
I can understand your pain. That's what drove me to acrylics as well. They take a little getting used to, and won't completely replace enamels, but I use them about 99% of the time.

Hints ...

1) A coat of enamel primer improves adhesion immensely. Acrylics don't have the chemical reaction with the plastic that enamel thinners do, so they don't stick as hard. I use Tamiya Fine Surface primer in a rattle can and take it outside to spray it.

2) Tip Dry is the biggest problem with acrylics. They dry so quick they will clog the tip of your airbrush almost immediately. The type of acrylic and the type of thinner affect this a lot. I keep a Q-Tip soaked in thinner handy and wipe my tip off eny time I sit the airbrush down.

3) Clean parts are CRITICAL! Since acrylics don't bind to plastic like enamels any oil whatsoever will limit their adhesion. Most people wash their parts in soap and water, I prefer alcohol.

4) Plain old rubbing alcohol works fine for thinning MM acrylics, however it does make them dry even faster. I feel like it helps eliminate any oil or grease I may have missed when cleaning the parts.

5) A drop or two of acrylic retarder (Available at most art supply stores under numerous names) helps the tip drying problem a lot.

6) Acrylics dry to the touch almost immediately. They dry so quickly that grainy surfaces are not uncommon because of the paint partially drying on its way to the surface. Try spraying at about 15 psi, about 3-4" from the surface.

7) Thinning, IMO, is a matter of personal preference. The "Best" thinner is the thinner that the manufacturer recommends. For Tamiya paints, alcohol will cause them to dry flat whether they were supposed to or not. MM can be thinned with alcohol, Windex, or several other items. Try a ratio of 3:1 and adjust as necessary from there.

8) MikeV's magic mixture of 2 parts distilled water, 1 part Winde, 1 part Simple Green works very well for cleaning the airbrush.
Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 9:14 PM
Chris,

I use a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl alcohol / fltered water to thin Acryl with.
I usually mix it in a 2:1 ratio of paint to thinner and it works well.
Tip dry can be a problem and the Badger Needle Juice helps some in that respect but the best thing you can do is to add some retarder to slow down the drying time. There are several brands out there from Createx, Aqua-Flow, Liquitex, Golden's, etc.
I just try and keep the tip of the needle clean with my fingernails every once in a while and usually have good results.

As an example, I did this Skyraider in Acryl entirely, including the Acryl flat black exhaust streaks.


Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:12 PM
Thanks Everyone for your help!

I sprayed a lil bit with some of the MM Acryl tonight and already experienced the grainy finish due to the paint drying midstream. I'm printing this out so I can keep it near the workbench and handy for refrence.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Bicester, England
Posted by KJ200 on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 2:49 AM
I've found using Tamiya thinner improves the finish with acrylics, as this includes a retarder.

The only acrylics that I have experienced adhesion problems with have been Vallejo, all the others, Gunze,Tamiya, Lifecolour,Model Master, have stuck to the model perfectly.

As for getting used to acrylics, making that transition to fume free spraying, with easy clean up using just window cleaner and water was a real chore! Wink [;)]

Karl

Currently on the bench: AZ Models 1/72 Mig 17PF

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 7:34 AM
i find that using retarder helps alot to prevent many acrylic problems. infact, i dont think ill ever use enamels, because it isnt much trouble to prime and clean before use, compared to the fumes and thinner hassle of enamels.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: A Spartan in the Wolverine State
Posted by rjkplasticmod on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 9:10 AM
I've used lacquers & enamels for so long that I just can't adjust to using acrylics. I've tried, but they just don't work for me. The fumes from enamels are a problem, but I have a vented spray booth which greatly minimizes the problem. I wish you well in the switch to acrylics, but I'll stay with the enamels.

Regards, Rick
RICK At My Age, I've Seen It All, Done It All, But I Don't Remember It All...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 10:35 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by rjkplasticmod

I've used lacquers & enamels for so long that I just can't adjust to using acrylics. I've tried, but they just don't work for me. The fumes from enamels are a problem, but I have a vented spray booth which greatly minimizes the problem. I wish you well in the switch to acrylics, but I'll stay with the enamels.

Regards, Rick


Thats why I'm keeping my enamels as back up....just in case I run into some problems.Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Lower Alabama
Posted by saltydog on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 4:32 PM
Foster, good to know John's is still up and running!! i was wondering if he faired well!! i've yet to meet john himself, but have heard good things about him, and i love his little shop. gotta get back there soon, later.
Chris The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 2, 2004 11:36 AM
I love the fumes. you get a nice buzz as you model. no need for additional intoxicants...
LOL!
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