AB - Going from single action to double action - HELP!!

Welcome to the forums MACooke.

Airbrushes, like many things are a matter of personal taste, hence you might have noticed the Badger devotees, lead by MikeV, and the Iwata clan headed up by Saltydog. Paasche appear to have taken a back seat over the last few years, hence the lack of posts in reference to them.

One thing does appear to be agreed by all is that double action is the way to go.

I'm sure plenty of other forum members will give you there thoughts on your question, for me its an Omni 4000 double action AB and Gunze acrylic paints.

Best of luck

Karl

Karl summed it up fairly well, we all have our favorites, but double action is the way... I believe one or two VL users have posted in the past saying it was a good brush.

Karl's Omni is also a mighty fine brush, great for close in work... I personally use a Badger 155 and love it for the same reason.. it does detail good. Read around and see the pros and cons about the brushes out there and feel free to ask questions! Any of the companies you mentioned are good ones, including Paasche... not to knock Aztec, but there's been a fair share of people here that can relate bad experiences to you.. some do great with them but there's a clogging/breaking issue that seems to go with them. I myself am one of them.

it's just a matter of personal taste and what the airbrush is to be used for... if you do WWII German craft perhaps an Omni 4000, Iwata HP-CS or HP-CR would be something to investigate. Both the Omni and Iwatas I mentioned do some great small detail work at low pressures. Which would be a necessity on some of those squiggle patterns and blotch patterns...

Hi Mitchell.

As Karl said it is a personal choice as to what airbrush you use and I agree completely. Badger, Thayer & Chandler (Badger), Iwata, Paasche, and many others are all excellent airbrushes that have large followings with each brand.
I am faithful to Badger because they make a great product, their service is the best....period, and they are American made.
That does not mean that they are the "best" or even better than any of the other brands that I mentioned, they are just my personal choice and it would be virtually impossible to sway me to another brand.
Let me quote my buddy who has been airbrushing for over 40 years now and told me this in an email once:

QUOTE: The fact of the matter is that I have not only tried, but own at least two of every airbrush made. And the main reason that I don't use most of them beyond testing is that they don't feel good in my hand. I can make any airbrush (even a $9.95 cheapy) do ANYTHING I want it to do to the finest detail. And I wil be the first to say that the Iwata and her cousins are the best machined airbrushes in the world except for the Sotar. They are great airbrushes. But the T&Cs have many advantages over them. I try not to badmouth any particular airbrush, they all have their place and no two people have exactly the same preferences. There are some companies that conduct business practices that I don't care for, but I keep that to myself. All of the major airbrush manufacturers send me free airbrushes in hopes of getting me to endorse their products. I always give them a fair test, but have yet to be swayed from Thayer. I was however a diehard VL user until the Vegas came out and changed my mind.

I agree completely with his comments. That being said, I would recommend a gravity-feed airbrush personally because I like their ability to spray at lower pressures reliably, they are a little easier to clean when finished, and you can put just a few drops of paint into them for touch-up work and not have to dirty a color cup or glass/plastic jar like you would with a siphon feed.
If you decide on a gravity-feed model my choices would be the Omni 4000, Badger 100LG, or Iwata HP-CS.
If you think a siphon-feed model would suit you better then my choices personally are the Badger Anthem 155, Omni 3000, Vega 2000, or the Iwata Eclipse. The Paasche VL and Badger Crescendo are also very popular, but they have a fatter body and are less comfortable to me personally. Some people prefer their shape though and won't use anything else.
I hope this helped out somewhat.

Mike

I've used the Paasche H model for at least 25 years & am also on my third. It is a great general purpose single action, siphon feed AB for the hobbyist. Earlier this year, I purchased an Iwata HP-CR Revolution AB, which is a dual action, gravity feed. Once you learn & adjust to the dual action, it is a very good AB & capable of doing finer work than the Paasche H. Many prefer the Iwata HP-CS as it can do even finer work than the CR, but I'm happy with the CR & it was a lot less expensive. I owned a Paasche VL several years ago, but sold it. My main problem with the VL was cleaning it. Newer designs from Iwata, Badger, etal, are much easier to dis-assemble & clean, but the VL was a bear, at least for me. That said, the VL worked very well & many swear by them.

Regards, Rick

Just incase you're wondering...

Badger "mafia"
-MikeV
-Tankmaster
-Tho
-1337
-others

Iwata "clan"
-Saltydog
-others

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337 Just incase you're wondering... Badger "mafia" -MikeV -Tankmaster -Tho -1337 -others

hmmm... I just found the HP-CS down at my LHS on sale.. you might have to put me on both lists...

I was looking for a gravity feed all lately, just happened to run into this one... haven't bought it yet because the missus is out of town and we have a $50.00 and over approval plan... (just gotta check with the other in case they had something in line to purchase) then it's mine!! Won't give up the 155 by any means... but wanting something to drop down to 5 PSI and still blow paint... (got a few Luft builds in the pile)

gangwars. drivebys.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 hmmm... I just found the HP-CS down at my LHS on sale.. you might have to put me on both lists...

Traitor!
Let the beatings begin!

Mike

I made the switch from the Paasche H to the Badger 360 and haven't looked back. Doulble action, and the ease of cleaning are the real selling points for me and the Badger. Not to mention, the user friendly design and the "feel" factor.

Steve

Thanks for all your input. I spoke w/ my local hobby retailer today, and they said that ultimately it is what one likes. I asked about the Iwatas, they claimed that they were very good, and that they were the "new kids on the block, all the rave now", etc. Both fellows claimed that the Paasche VL is the choice of pro's, whatever that means. I'm also an amateur photographer, and a very close friend, who is a freelance photojournalist, recommended Nikon, same reason. But I know photographers who swear by their Canon EOS Rebels.....

Note to Rick: Where'd you get that picture of me eating a donut?

One more thing: the gravity fed ABs seem to have a very small cup. Do those have to be refilled quite a bit? Also, doesn't the cup get in your way. And and and and...is the cup an issue to clean?

I get rather lazy with cleaning my Paasche H...I run a cup of lacquer thinner through it when I'm done, then disassemble the needle and cone, then throw them (and the color cup) in lacquer thinner to soak until the next use. I clean them w/ pipe cleaners before each use.

Since you like Paasche and are a little familiar with them you might want to take a look at the Paasche Millenium. It is a slimmed down version of a VL and a very good airbrush. All of the other airbrushes are excellent to it is a matter of personal choice. I would try to hold a few if you are able.
John

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke One more thing: the gravity fed ABs seem to have a very small cup. Do those have to be refilled quite a bit? Also, doesn't the cup get in your way. And and and and...is the cup an issue to clean? I get rather lazy with cleaning my Paasche H...I run a cup of lacquer thinner through it when I'm done, then disassemble the needle and cone, then throw them (and the color cup) in lacquer thinner to soak until the next use. I clean them w/ pipe cleaners before each use.

Mitch, my Omni 4000 is a gravity feed, and it doesn't so much have a colour cup, as a colour bucket. This holds enough to paint an entire 1/48 fighter in a single colour, without coming anywhere near filling it up.

As for cleaning, I usually flush my Omni out with window cleaner, then put a few drops of thinner in the cup and brush around the cup with a stiff bristle brush brush before blowing the AB through with clean water. And that is all I do after each session. The Omni only gets stripped and cleaned every month or so.

Hope this helps.

Karl

Got a Paasche H, and I too initially had a problem with the gravity feed color cup sitting there, blocking my view. But over time, you'll adjust and get used to it. Above all, that was the biggest change I had to contend with with my Iwata HP-CS.

I cannot believe you forgot me on the badger list 1337!!! this thread should be locked for that!!!
I started with an Aztek and found it OK til the tip started doing what it wanted to do, having to do nothing with spraying paint I'll tell ya that. I then went to an omni 4000G and was in heaven, its still at my table. I then got a 360 and thats the best model brush I seen so far ( I own an iwata too and can directly compare them).
I have a cresendo too, and too scared to use it on my models, I have visions of it exploding in a flood of paint. It puts out alotta of volume.
Double action is the way to go because youll go to it anyways so learn it from the start.
Jeff

Badger "mafia"
-MikeV
-Tankmaster
-Tho
-1337
-others

Iwata "clan"
-Saltydog
-others

you have an iwata, let the torture begin

Has anyone tried the Peak from Bear Air? From their blurb (below) it sounds like they've tweaked an Iwata.

Bear Air has worked with a premier Japanese airbrush manufacturer to bring you the ultimate in airbrushing performance. We believe you will find no finer airbrush in this price range. In fact, we guarantee it!

http://www.bearair.com/products.asp?dept=1087

Carl,

The Peak airbrushes are supposed to be very good from what I have heard.
They are manufactured in Fujiosaki by the company that makes airbrushes for Iwata, Olympos, Tamiya, and several other brands.

Mike

Thanks Mike. They are well priced although I have some concerns about the availability of bits & pieces here in Oz. We can cop the courier slug from the US for the occaisional big spend but it's prohibitive if topping up with replacement parts etc.

then just order 2 or so spare parts of everything

I have the peak C-5. It is a very nice airbrush much like my HP-C. Parts should last you a while if it that is a concern. The nozzles aren't brass so they hold up much longer. Bear air is the only place that sells them so you would have to get all your parts from there. When I get home I will see if a HP-C nozzle fits.
John

I have both a Paasche VL and a Iwata HP-C. i tend to use the Iwata more because it's alot easier to clean. (as most Gravity fed guns are)

I went to order a 100LG from YouCanShopSecure. They do have the cheapest online prices I could find BUT ...
US$52.10 for the hardware (AUS$68.73)
UPS Shipping: US$125 (AUS$165) [:0]

Bear Air's UPS price was US$4.50, so what d'ya think I did? (Shipping is typically $20-40 per package from US to Oz)

"hello my name is gharlane and yes i am a Paasche VL user". that being said the VL, to me, is a excellent AB. yes it can be a pain to clean but after you have used it for a while it just becomes second nature on the care and feeding of this AB. if you think that a siphon feed AB is what you need/want this one is defintely the way to go.
if you decide that you need/want a gravity fed AB, i personally would, go with the Badger 360 Univesal

that's my

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1337 Just incase you're wondering... Badger "mafia" -MikeV -Tankmaster -Tho -1337 -others Iwata "clan" -Saltydog -others

1337: You better add me to the Badger 155 mafia. After getting mine per the recs on this board, I am quite impressed. (I was the author of the "I HATE AIRBRUSHES" rant.")

Badger "mafia"
-MikeV
-Tankmaster
-1337
-Rockythegoat
-others

Iwata "clan"
-Saltydog
-others

"Middle ground" (shoot them too)
-tho
-woodbeck