Double Action Airbrush Decision ALMOST MADE...

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke Hey Mike V...I haven't totally decided yet, I do like what I've read about the Badger 155. The only thing I'm hesitant about is that it's not a gravity-fed unit. Do you notice a lack of spraying ability with not having gravity feed?

There is not that much difference really except for when you spray at lower pressures.
If you are set on buying a gravity-feed then why not look at a Badger 100LG or Omni 4000? They are comparable to those two Iwatas.

Mike

And cheaper.

But if you must go iwata, I say go with the CR: Save a few bucks, and since most people normally need such fine lines... yeah. ask the traito*ahem* i mean saltydog

I have a CR and it does all I need. Actually, I think the larger needle size is better for spraying metallic paint. The CS comes with the smaller needle, so is more capable of finer work. If you buy the larger needle fot the CS, it adds cost & basically turns your CS into a CR.

Regards, Rick

I agree with Rick.
It seems that modelers have become obsessed with the airbrush that "sprays the finest lines" and that just isn't necessary in most cases.
I doubt that 90% of the people on this forum could get a finer line with the HP-CS over the Revolution CR with model paints.

Mike

To MikeV:

Regarding the Badger 100LG -vs- the 155...apart from the gravity feed, is there any difference between the two?

And on the 100LG, is there a cap available for the color cup? Is a cap necessary?

Do they come in any color besides chrome/stainless? (Just joking...)

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke To MikeV: Regarding the Badger 100LG -vs- the 155...apart from the gravity feed, is there any difference between the two?

Yes. The 100LG has a choice of three different needle/tip combinations.
For modeling you would want the medium needle/tip set.
The 155 Anthem uses a single needle/tip set.

QUOTE: And on the 100LG, is there a cap available for the color cup? Is a cap necessary?

Yes it comes with a cap for the color cup and no, it is not necessary if you are spraying at an angle where the paint won't spill out if tipped too far. If you are or are afraid of paint spilling then put the cap on. It is just a press-fit cap.

QUOTE: Do they come in any color besides chrome/stainless? (Just joking...)

Sorry chrome is it.

Mike

Thanks, MikeV!

One more question for all. I'm currently looking at dixieart.com, under the Iwata Eclipse series, and the description says that it needs 0.5 CFM and 25 PSI for adequate spray. Just what is "adequate"? Will the thing work at the 15 to 20 PSI that so many modelers use to airbrush? Will it work at the 5 PSI I'm hearing about for fine detail work?

Thanks to all of you for your input.

BTW, I'm in Cincinnati, and we're getting a major winter storm. It started snowing this morning, around 6 or 7, and it's supposed to snow through Thursday afternoon, we're expected to get between 8 and 16 inches of snow. Glad I've got a few kits and plenty of paint, thinner, etc. Now if I could just get my wife and two toddlers to let me escape into the basement for a few hours (or few days!)....

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke Thanks, MikeV! One more question for all. I'm currently looking at dixieart.com, under the Iwata Eclipse series, and the description says that it needs 0.5 CFM and 25 PSI for adequate spray. Just what is "adequate"? Will the thing work at the 15 to 20 PSI that so many modelers use to airbrush? Will it work at the 5 PSI I'm hearing about for fine detail work?

Which Eclipse is that?
If you ask me, 5 psi is rediculous. I never go below 10 as it is not necessary.

Mike

Mike:

If you go to the Eclipse page, the first one listed in "boxed in", it's the BCS. There's a grid-like presentation of selling points.

I've almost always airbrushed between 15 and 20 PSI. The owner of the Hobby Shop where I grew up, who sold me my first and second airbrushes, said that anyone who used more than 15 PSI should be taken out and shot. OK, so he was a bit extreme...I think someone shot him for using 17 PSI through his airbrush. Ha ha...

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke Thanks, MikeV! One more question for all. I'm currently looking at dixieart.com, under the Iwata Eclipse series, and the description says that it needs 0.5 CFM and 25 PSI for adequate spray. Just what is "adequate"? Will the thing work at the 15 to 20 PSI that so many modelers use to airbrush? Will it work at the 5 PSI I'm hearing about for fine detail work.

The pressure required depends on the viscosity of the paint you are spraying. My CR works fine with most model paints in the 15-20 psi range with only moderate thinning. Like Mike, I never try to go much below 8-10 psi, and that does require some additional thinning of the paint.

Regards, Rick

QUOTE: Originally posted by MACooke Mike: If you go to the Eclipse page, the first one listed in "boxed in", it's the BCS. There's a grid-like presentation of selling points.

That's what I thought. The BCS is a siphon-feed model and that is why they recommend that pressure. You may be able to get away with 10 psi with it but it is difficult to do reliably with model paints, especially acrylics.

Mike

Guys, if you're looking for the 100 G/sg or 150, consider the badger "customized" one. it costs more, but you get ingraving of choice and color of choice, if available.

MACooke, I have the 155 and with the metal color cup I usually spray detail somewhere around 12 to 15 PSI or so depending on the paint... with the siphon bottle it is necessary to spray more at 15 or better, usually about 17 to 20 for me...

if you are looking at the best of both worlds the 360 does both true gravity feed as well as siphon. The metal color cup for the 155 just shortens the pickup tube for the paint, and adds a *LITTLE* assistance from gravity and less paint volume to allow slightly lower pressures, but it's still not gravity fed...

I remember now why Chris (Saltydog) was wanting a CR. it was for spraying acrylics.. forget why he felt it was better.. When I was looking for a new airbrush he recommended against the BCR as it was siphon fed and wouldn't do as well as the CR or CS.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV I agree with Rick. It seems that modelers have become obsessed with the airbrush that "sprays the finest lines" and that just isn't necessary in most cases. I doubt that 90% of the people on this forum could get a finer line with the HP-CS over the Revolution CR with model paints. Mike

Not so much as an obsession, as it is, I think as more of a growing stardard in modeling building with regard to airbrushes and the coveted "fine lines."

I think what is happening is that in recent years modelers are becoming more confident, familiar and are demanding tools that can help them recreate that specific finish, look or effect. Also airbrush companies read and take note of what scale modelers want and breakthrough airbrush technology has contributed to the hobby with airbrushes that can not only handle the basics but offer airbrushes to the modeling market to help produce fine lines for specific techniques modelers employ. It's true that the majority of the painting we do with our airbrushes for scale modeling doesn't require fine lines, but when it comes to trying to re-create, say a "soft-blend" demarcation camo scheme, modelers realize that a particular brand airbrush capable of producing fines lines can help them do the job free-hand without tedious masking, use of stincils, etc...saving time and building their airbrushing skills. Also popular these days, with new weathering techniques developing, such as pre and post shading, gun gass exhaust effects and etc....most of these techniques recommend a fine line, or "detail airbrush" that otherwise most other techiniques can't re-produce. Fine line capable airbrushes are simply becoming a standard, like masking tape and superglue...an awesome trend that most modelers credit to have help produce some of the most eye-catching finishes this hobby has seen in the last decade or so. This is evident in the pages of FSM.
Having used and owning both a Revolution Hp-CR and HP-CS they do in fact have slightly different spraying characterists atributed to nozzle/ needle size. I would agree that with practice and experimenting with variations in thining ratios, air pressure and training your trigger finger, a Revolution could be all one would need for modeling. The Eclipse CS uniquely smaller .35mm nozzle has finer spraying characterists inherent and is extremely tolerant with our thicker model/ hobby paints without most of the experimentation right out of the box. Better atomization is the key factor with the CS and it is emmediately apparent in contrast to the CR. Try a HP-CS for yourself, and I'm sure it will erase all doubts in what you've read or heard.
Check out my F-5E Tiger on my MSN link to my home page. It was the CS that produced the camo (freehand), CR for erverything else.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plasticmod992 Try a HP-CS for yourself, and I'm sure it will erase all doubts in what you've read or heard.

Greg,

Was this statement for me or the thread in general? I have an HP-CS.

Mike

This was for the thread in general.....trust me, I know how many airbrushes you own you Badger maniac! LOL!!!

Haha.

Have a Merry Christmas Greg. It is always a pleasure speaking with you on these forums my friend.

Mike

Likewise, and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

If I may add, I have an Iwata HP-BCS (Eclipse, bottle feed), and have serious problems spraying acrylics and lacquers. What I get, no matter what the thinning ratio and air pressure, is a very pronounced orange peel effect. In fact with the Tamiya acrylics, I get a dry powder effect if the spraying distance is more than 1 1/2 inch! I have an old dual-action airbrush with a 0.7mm needle and it sprays Tamiya acrylics without a problem. the main difference is the paint flow. For thick paints on broad surfaces, you NEED a high flow airbrush. The eclipse, with its specific 0.5mm needle which can also do hair-lines, is not appropriate. It can work on details, however, by reducing the pressure and spraying very close from the subject.

The eclipse, however, works very well with testors enamels. I think the problem with the eclipse, ironically, is that the atomization is too fine, which tends to dry the paint as it is sprayed.

Most of the spraying I do is at around 20 PSI, sometimes 15 for detail work. I use an Iwata Smart-Jet compressor, very nice and silent little device (once the "bleeder" pressure regulator was replaced with a true regulator!)

Oh, and no, my eclipse works as it should, I have replaced the needle and nozzle already, and the ambient conditions are suitable for spraying (70F, 30% humidity when I tested).

I've read through some of your responses. I own a PVL and I love it. I use a #3 needle for most and as far as the cleaning goes, I don't find it to difficult. Don't be scared about losing the springs. I use the hell out of mine and I'm very pleased with it.
When I bought my first brush it was a single action and when I decided to go with the duel action my supplier laughed at me and said " you're finally getting serious". That was six years ago and my brush is still kicking like the day I bought it. Treat your brush like (hopefully) your woman and it will treat you just as good.

mustangmuscle,

I have the same model Eclipse and have none of those problems. From limited info, I'd say your paint isn't thin enough and you are spraying with too much psi.

experiment a bit and make the paint the consistacy of skim milk. start with real low psi and spray lines, then raise it a pound or so to find the right range.

I can only base this info on the results I get with the same model.

I am not familiar with your compressor, but does it run hot? Is the air warm if you spray your hand?

OK, I know that this response is drifting a little from the original topic but I want to direct this to Mustangmuscle.

I also have the Smartjet and was courious about the comment you made about replacing your regulator. Did you replace the regulator/moisture trap that came with the compressor? If so, can you please tell me what you replaced it with and the difference it made? I was wondering if I could do better than the one that came with the compressor.

Thanks for any advice.

Chuck B.

Thanks for the advice, hatewall. I think I have tried all the possible combinations of air pressure, distance and thinning ratio. I will retry and take pictures so you can see what I get. The strange thing is that I can get good results easily with my old airbrush (high flow nozzle), whereas it is a pain with the Eclipse. Even the Testors enamels require some careful application to get a uniform coverage (did I mention I paint cars exclusively, so my paints are glossy most of the time, except for drivetrain and chassis parts), but I am quite happy with the results now that I gained some experience with the airbrush.

The compressor does not run hot, the air is not too cold nor too hot, it is rather lukewarm. It has an auto stop system, so that it runs only when I spray, this keeps it cool most of the time.

Cbreeze, the mod (done by the guy at Coast Airbrush when I bought it, for $40 more) consists of placing a real regulator down the water trap. He also moved the pressure gauge from the water trap body to the new regulator, and screwed a plug where it was on the trap. Now the compressor is very quiet, no air is bleeding from the trap to regulate the pressure anymore. You can probably do it yourself but I did not want to mess with thread adapters and such, and it looks very clean and compact (I will take a picture or two to show you what it looks like)

Mustangmuscle,

Thanks for the response. I would like to see your set-up. Though I didn't buy my compressor from Coast, maybe they could sell me the same thing. I was thinking about buying the solvent proof 0 rings for my Iwata airbrush from them anyway.

I guess it is one of those mysteries.

When I spray glosses, I spray them thin and wet in many coats. Since you are using nice equipment and paint, I am stumped.

Here is the regulator setup on my Iwata SmartJet compressor:

Mustangmuscle,

Thanks for posting the picture. Comparing it to my regulator/moisture trap that came with my Iwata compressor, it appears that only the regulator is different. Right now, I adjust my air pressure via the bleed screw on the bottom of my water trap bottle. I would prefer something different. Is there a brand name on the regulator. I was thinking of calling Coast Aribrush to see if I can get one like yours.

Thanks,

Chuck B.

As I said above, the regulator comes from Coast Airbrush, it was bought and installed at the time I bought the compressor, by the guys at the store. I would call them, they can probably sell it to you (I think the mal/male connector at the regulator output is extra, it does not come with the regulator. Ask also if you need a plug for the meter, as you need to move it from the trap assembly to the regulator.

mustangmuscle,

Called Coast this afternoon and they are going to send me the regulator you have on you set up. Only going to be approx $40.00 plus shipping. It should make a difference in the way my compressor runs and sprays. I just wasn't happy using the bleed valve to set the pressure. Coast was very helpful and so were you. I will save your photos to guide me on the install I am going to do myself.

Thanks,

Chuck B.