Picking out a new airbrush

I have been using an Iwata Eclipse for about 6 years. It works pefectly with all of the original parts. I am meticulous about keeping it clean though.

I think the older airbrushes being better made is 1/2 right. It is true that they were made to a higher standard. Because of less of a relience on outsourcing parts. Most were made in house by very good machinist and more time was spent making them. EFBE are about the only airbruhses today that compare in my opinion. The modern production machines used to make airbrushes today are a lot more accurate and make parts at a much faster pace. But often quality is sacrifed for cost savings and looser tolerences are tolerated. I wish I still had my old Badger 100 side feed from mid 80's it was a lot smoother and had a better fit and finish than my newer Badger models except for my Sotar. So much for the rant.
John

so that would mean an airbrush with super narrow threads and 5 cm of them would be the ultimate tweeker?

Glad I could help my friend.
I too need to find some of these older airbrushes and start a collection.
I think it would be cool to try them out and see the fine craftsmanship they used in that era.

Mike

OK, I stand corrected. It does make a difference though; give it a try.

Your buddy is right about the quality of the older models. The '40's T&C has half the trigger pull of Iwata, but much smoother and better control, and it just 'feels' better. Granted, this one was well-used; that was obvious when I dis-assembled it for cleaning. (Ebay deal) Would love to see the work of the previous owner.

Thanks, Mike.

Here's your answer Hoser from my buddy:

QUOTE: Mike, Your analysis is 100 % correct. The finer threads make for a much truer seal. Opening the head assy will cause an air leak and the air flow will stutter. The early models did allow a liitle loosening without this happening, but it was only an accidental by-product of the fine threads. Remember too, that the people building these airbrushes were expert craftsmen who were both engineers and machinists. And, they did so in a time when quality and precision were the desired end product. Each unit was always made to the exacting standards of the design and prototype, not like todays slam production techniques. As you know, I have a collection of vintage airbrushes that is about 98% complete as far as any airbrush made before 1960 (I have everything since then). I have painted with every airbrush that I own, even the ones from the 1800s. The early ones believe it or not, are all far better, smoother, and more precise than any of the ones we get today. My favorite of all of them is my 1900 Thayer Fountain"A". I would paint with it exclusively if it werent so valuable. My favorites in terms of design are the Wolds, they made so many more types of airbrushes than anyone else ever has, they are a trip. And, honestly, Olaos C Wold probably deserves more credit for Charles Burdick's Fountain Airbrush than Burdick himself. But, Burdick was the "man", and Wold was his helper.

The cool airbrush history lesson was free of charge.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hoser Great Mike, be good to know. Wonder if you remember; I sent an email to you a few months ago with a pic of one of those trying to identify it.

Yes I do remember that. My buddy identified it for you.
I sent him an email about the threads being that way and haven't heard back from him yet. I will ask the same thing to Ken and see what's up, although it may take a while to get an answer with the holidays and all.

Mike

Great Mike, be good to know. Wonder if you remember; I sent an email to you a few months ago with a pic of one of those trying to identify it.
While you have Ken on the line, ask him why you can't get replacement 'O' rings for the 350 fluid nozzle - Dixie Art told me they can't get those and trying to match up generics has proven impossible. I'd be SOL if it wasn't for eBay.

Jeez, has this gotten off-topic or what? Can't even blame it on a New Year's hangover, either. Apologies, everyone.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hoser Gotcha. I should have stated these are probably at least 20 yrs. old and they have extremely fine needle / nozzle combos (illustrators brushes, and yes, I do use them for modeling) though I must disagree re: the design. There must be a reason to go to the trouble of machining the long run of fine threads.

I would imagine they machined them that way to form a better seal as fine threads do seal better. Let me ask Ken at Badger about that as his family was machining airbrush parts for Thayer & Chandler long before Badger ever came into being.

QUOTE: Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit - too much caffiene today, I rekon.

No problem dude. I have done the same on occasion.

Mike

Gotcha. I should have stated these are probably at least 20 yrs. old and they have extremely fine needle / nozzle combos (illustrators brushes, and yes, I do use them for modeling) though I must disagree re: the design. There must be a reason to go to the trouble of machining the long run of fine threads.

Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit - too much caffiene today, I rekon.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 Cool Chef, someone here recommended them, but because of the name I felt less than secure... but if Badger recommended them.... Thanks for the heads up!

Also I thought I would add that I got my 1000 LG from Dixie Art, While they have good prices , there communication leaves something to be desired (meaning the do not post on there site if an item is in stock or not and I only found out my first order ahdn't shipped when I e-mailed them the following day, also I had to call them check and see if my order had shipped) Oh well the brush got here just fine and perhaps that is why there prices are low time to get down lol

What I meant was that I haven't seen a modern airbrush with adjustments at the head.
There used to be some in the past that adjusted that way but none of the modern ones I have seen do that, although some of the European brands such as Holbein might still have one. In regards to loosening the aircap to adjust the spray pattern: why would you even want to?
It was not designed to do that so why do it?
That is the newest gimmick with the Iwata High-Line series now although it is done under the airbrush body instead of the actual head moving.
Use the regulator to adjust the pressure and the trigger to adjust the paint flow and that's all that's necessary.

QUOTE: - the threaded portions are just under 1/4" (not much danger of the cap blowing off unless you really wind it out).

I said that tongue-in-cheek. That's why I had the laughing smiley at the end.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by Hoser QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV You don't adjust anything at the nozzle. I discovered by accident that on AB's where the air cap has a relatively long shank and fine threads, you can vary the spray pattern by adjusting the air cap in and out (all other things being equal). This must be an adjustment feature, otherwise why not short, coarse threads, e.g. Iwata? What do you think, Mike? I have never seen that on any double-action airbrush although that may very well be on some airbrushes. I wouldn't recommend it though as it is not necessary and you may have that aircap blow off under pressure right into your model. Mike

That suprises me considering your devotion to Badger and Thayer & Chandler. I have three D/A Thayer & Chandler's (one a 40's (?) vintage) and all of them have fine thread, long shank air caps - the threaded portions are just under 1/4" (not much danger of the cap blowing off unless you really wind it out). I haven't noticed any appreciable drop in pressure at the business end (set at the CO2 reg.) though a pound or two would be hard to notice.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hoser QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV You don't adjust anything at the nozzle. I discovered by accident that on AB's where the air cap has a relatively long shank and fine threads, you can vary the spray pattern by adjusting the air cap in and out (all other things being equal). This must be an adjustment feature, otherwise why not short, coarse threads, e.g. Iwata? What do you think, Mike?

I have never seen that on any double-action airbrush although that may very well be on some airbrushes.
I wouldn't recommend it though as it is not necessary and you may have that aircap blow off under pressure right into your model.

Mike

This must be an adjustment feature, otherwise why not short, coarse threads, e.g. Iwata?


I think whats happening to you is that some of the air is leaking out then and dropping the air presuer. This will cause a problem. But if you get a Regulater this has a nob on it that you can adjust and drop the air or open it up.

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV You don't adjust anything at the nozzle.

I discovered by accident that on AB's where the air cap has a relatively long shank and fine threads, you can vary the spray pattern by adjusting the air cap in and out (all other things being equal). This must be an adjustment feature, otherwise why not short, coarse threads, e.g. Iwata?

What do you think, Mike?

Cool Chef, someone here recommended them, but because of the name I felt less than secure... but if Badger recommended them.... Thanks for the heads up!

Hello,
I too was just looking for an airbrush and after much research I narrowed it down to the Iwata CR, Badger 100LG & the Omni 4000 (as I was looking to get a nice brsuh for not too much $)
Anyway I just got my Badger 100LG today and look forward to getting it going
Also if you are looking to get a Badger or an Omni take a look at www.youcanshopsecure.com they aeem to have some very good prices and are one of 2 companies that were recommended to me when i e-mail the Badger Company.
There is my

hey welcome back!

As long as your compressor has a 1/4" adapter to it... OR has an adapter you can screw another adapter to get it to 1/4" you are set!

I recommend at the least a regulator too if yours doesnt have one already.. about $20 to $60 dollars depending if you get an industrial type one from Lowes and such, or a hobby type which can be had from dixieart.com or your local hobby shop perhaps.

A moisture trap is nice as well, especially if you live somewhere with a bit of humidity. It is $19 at Lowes or your local hardware store. (They are all basically the same, construction or hobby moisture traps/filters do the same thing)

AND if you get these wonderful things, remember you will need one 1/4 connector for the end of each of them. (one from the regulator to either a water trap or the airbrush, and if you get a water trap one for the end of that for the airbrush hose) Those are cheap at about $1.39 each and can be got at a hardware store as well....

Mike answered the question about nozzles... once you decide which brush to get play with a little before you paint a model... even spraying water with food color in it will give you a rough idea how much or how little it will do for you.. (and its cheaper than model paint!)

I have a Badger 175 and it is a good brush, HOWEVER... I recommend the 155 if you are doing hobby stuff. It goes in tighter for fine detail and does good at general coverage for bigger models. The 175 had a bit more of paint output and IMHO it is taking me longer to learn how to control it for the detail work than the 155. The Badger 360 is the same brush as the 155 with a gravity feed option which allows you to get even lower pressure and therefore possibly finer detail work in... Either one are good and easy to clean. (Do a search for cleaning airbrush on here and you will see as many posts about it as which one is the best one!)

Good luck! And hope this doesnt confuse you even more!

No, on double-action airbrushes the paint is controlled by how far you pull back the trigger. You don't adjust anything at the nozzle.
Pull back the trigger slightly and you get a line around 1/32" and with the trigger all the way back you get a line about 2" wide.

Mike

Here's another question. With the Badger 155, is the nozzel adjustable so it can do fine to broad lines? If that makes any sense. Heh.

BTW, thanks for all the help!

I have no idea if this question can be answered but I thought I would throw it out there anyway. I was looking at the various airbrushes and I thought that I liked the sounds of the Badgers the best, maybe the 155 or 175, not sure yet. I bought a compressor last summer for my last airbrush, and I was wondering if it would work with a Badger airbrush. The compressor is from the Federal Equipment co. It may be called a Speedy Sprayer(?) Anybody familiar with it?

ahhh yes. here we go again. lol. i would reccomend a badger 155. it spray extremel well. i love mine. go for a 360 if you like gravvy feed.

Pick a double action brush by Badger, Thayer and Chandler (made by Badger), Iwata, or Paasche and learn to use it properly. You'll never regret the decision.

There is no best airbrush although there are some poor quality ones on the market. They are all just tools and the "Best" one for you is the one that you prefer and learn to use properly.

If you search this area for information you'll probably find about a thousand posts. This same post comes up every few days.

There's a place on-line called Dixie Art, here's the link:

http://www.dixieart.com/Airbrushes.html

They've got about as good of prices as I've seen. I myself am in the process of picking out a double action AB, to take over for my 18 year old Paasche H model. I've narrowed it down to a Badger 155 or an Iwata Revolution series.

What you'll find on these forums is that there is no right choice. There are those who are tried and true Badger users (MikeV!), and there are those who swear by the Iwatas. What's important is that you practice and become familiar and comfortable with your AB.

I was surprised last night, while airbrushing some Testors Model Master enamels, I dialed down my #5 needle cap, and with the paint properly thinned and the pressure just right, I was able to paint a 1/16" line just right, with no spatter or overspray at all. I was impressed.

You should expect widely varying responses, and understand that no one will steer you wrong here! This is a good group of fellow modelers.

Mitch

Hey Allie! Welcome to the forums!!!

Here's a good place to start looking for which airbrush is right for you, a converstation thread from a few days ago on here about what airbrush is good.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32231

There's several good ones out there so read a little and if you like the sound of some of them come back and we'd be happy to answer any and all questions about it!

---edit---

Felt bad about leaving you hanging with no info so I thought I would mention,

the most popular ones seem to be the Badgers with the 155/360 and 100, the Omni 4000, the Iwata HP-CS or CR and the Paasche VL. Personally I own the 155 and 175 Badgers and contemplating an Iwata at present.